To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

No one wants to work anymore!

But how many people have ever worked because they enjoy it? I'm not saying no one has - there are people who love their jobs - but, particularly in the sectors that would formerly have been office-based and are now WFH, are there really so many people who would be working if they didn't have to?

I think that a balance between office time and WFH would be ideal. There are a good many businesses in the US that have said that once things are "more under control" (will they ever be if people WILL NOT vaccinate?) they plan on a split week.

@Rozziie so you are looking for another in office Job?

Its you who is missing the point so spectacularly. You are throwing wild statements around about how selfish it is to want to wfh and you work full remotely and intend to keep doing it, to make your own life better.

@Tealightsandd the bus is free at the point of use. You knew exactly what I meant. It has to be so people can get to the hospital because public transport is so poor.

Also if people used public transport to get around and see family and friends at weekends, they still will at weekends. The people who will not be 'jumping in their cars instead' would have driven anyway.

For the most part, they don't have a car and then take public transport at weekends.

Perhaps it is what you need and want, however I have noticed bills increased so actually wfh should be compensated for that. Also, not , everyone want's to return to the office , I work a minimum 20-30 hour week whilst finishing off masters and attempting to see friends and family in spare time. WFH allows me to successfully do this without impact on my work whereas social anxiety significantly impacts my work in an office environment

Perhaps it is what you need and want, however I have noticed bills increased so actually wfh should be compensated for that.

Why should WFHers be compensated for higher bills when they’re saving a packet on transport costs?

Those are pretty much the people who are still going regularly the rest of us are going in hybrid working under duress. And it won’t continue in our office I know that for a fact as people are just point blank refusing to go in.

@frazzledasarock So let me get this straight - your employer has been eminently reasonable by asking people to adopt a hybrid model (by which I assume you mean a mix of going into the office and WFH) and you genuinely think they will be forced to revert to people working fully from home? I think you’re going to be disappointed.

@Dongdingdong

Those are pretty much the people who are still going regularly the rest of us are going in hybrid working under duress. And it won’t continue in our office I know that for a fact as people are just point blank refusing to go in.

@frazzledasarock So let me get this straight - your employer has been eminently reasonable by asking people to adopt a hybrid model (by which I assume you mean a mix of going into the office and WFH) and you genuinely think they will be forced to revert to people working fully from home? I think you’re going to be disappointed.

Entirely depends on how many people it is and what they do. Replacing skilled people us an utter pain in the arse.

In London there has been a huge drive to get people to cycle to work over the last decade. That impacts public transport usage too.

I’m restarting WFH in just over a week after a 6 month hiatus. I literally can’t wait. My frontline NHS job was so stressful and I hated it (plus I was bullied for my disability) Just looking forward to being able to work at my own pace. Forward thinking businesses will survive. Unfortunately it’s a dog eat dog world and if public transport services aren’t required or are required less then it’s can’t purely be blamed on people who WFH.

I guess it’s a battle between employers and employees. Hopefully there will be churn so that employees are matched with employers with similar working preferences. Having diverse facilities and flexibility sounds like it will make for greater inclusiveness and diversity within a team.

Still love wfh and think the economy will adapt - we used to have community delivery services and shops and saw a return to that in lockdown. I find a hybrid system the worst of all worlds - i'm set up for work at home, if i go into the office i take my laptop and get a hot desk, so i dont gave my second screen and am less productive anyway. Boss wants people back in for 'cameraderie' but wfh us a dealbreaker for me now and i know they are struggling to recruit across the board so the ball's in my court.

Personally, i think we need and entirely new model when it comes to public transport. Train fares are fucking ridiculous for absolutely shit service.

Someone said the argument re public transport is "silly" because "services exist to meet demand" and if that demand is reduced then it is quite right that services be reduced. There are many people who can't work from home - nurses, carers, shop workers, cleaners, hotel workers, etc, etc, etc - and those people need reliable and regular public transport. There are also people who may not be working but who want to get to the shops, the cinema, etc. etc. If they don't have access to good public transport, that, in turn, affects the viability of those businesses.

But there are plenty of people who drive to work & drive to the shops & the cinema hence why the model shifted from high street to places like Bluewater where lots drive to eat, shop & the cinema. High streets have been dying for years due to people shopping in out of town big complexes & online shopping but I didn't see anyone worried about public transport usage then. 2020 saw car ownership increase to a record number.
Surely someone who drives to work & parks in a car park instead of using the available public transport is just as responsible for the decline of the service as a remote worker?

You're going on as if I want to work remotely myself but I don't want anyone else to when my ENTIRE POINT is that I don't want to either!!!!

So you don't like it so therefore it's a bad thing. Why don't you get a non remote job then?

Wfh or a hybrid model doesn't just benefit the privilege.
Its been better for some who are disabled stay in the workforce, parents, those who have chronic conditions.

Re ‘no one wants to work anymore’ - and if they ever did.

Many people are industrious and want to work. If there is a national air of positivity around the concept of work then it becomes about more than earning wage. It becomes a matter of pride.

Compare the bowler hat man in the underground in the 60s with the wfh IT consultant of today. One ‘earned’ his right through his fortitude to wear the uniform and in return he garnered respect. He earned his life’s privileges through his work and dedication.

In comparison, we probably wouldn’t be able to identify the IT consultant. They could be in scruffy jeans, in the pub in the middle of the day. Or asleep. So where is the work ethic message for the next generation? If workers are not visible then nobody will want to become one. There is no sense of belonging or pride in ‘joining the workforce’.

This is going to end up one way I think. It will lead to a less productive, lower skilled but more entitled generation. Until we all get back to the understanding that work is hard and requires some fortitude and sacrifice in return for a certain lifestyle then productivity will slip. We also need to acknowledge that there are more benefits to working than money for both society and individual.

Work is and will always be about industry and productivity. Not blending it for a cushy home life where you can avoid seeing people you don’t like and swapping them for a dog. That’s not to say there isn’t a place for wfh. There is course is, especially as it helps ppl like me balance earning money with childcare. But it should definitely be the exception rather than the norm.

I think this has all started because what we saw as an acceptable commute started to get further and further away. People should find more local jobs. If you travel more than an hour per day to it from work then you shouldn’t have applied for that job in the first place. It isn’t within your vicinity. Find something closer.

I have been in quite poor health over the last eighteen months or so. However my GPs have been great. I have much more chance of a phone appointment. One of them actually phones me every 2/3 weeks to check on me and they arranged for nurses to come to the house when I needed them. I have been seen at different health authorities when they have had a space and it has been good.
However I have received and continue to receive messages from telephone company who have hiked up my bill by £14. Per month and it is impossible to speak to them. They have also been charging for a different phone that I had prior to this one and I cannot speak to anyone about it.
I have also received loads of letters from the water board demanding cash for previous address. When I finally managed to speak to a person, they were obviously WFH. There were small children in the backgrond who kept screaming and crying, the operative could not hear or understand me properly and they were extremely rude.

DVLA although incredibly slow have been far easier to speak to and much more helpful.
People at the councìl have become even worse at answering their phones and even less help than usual. Finally of course is the DWP. In normal times they are pretty much useless but they are now worse.
So all in all I have found it to have improved things in some ways and made them considerbly worse in others.

Until we all get back to the understanding that work is hard and requires some fortitude and sacrifice in return for a certain lifestyle then productivity will slip. We also need to acknowledge that there are more benefits to working than money for both society and individual.

I'm not sure why remote working impacts fortitude & sacrifice. Why do you think UK productivity was so low pre pandemic?

There is course is, especially as it helps ppl like me balance earning money with childcare. But it should definitely be the exception rather than the norm.

Why should your situation be the exception though?

@ididitsocanyou

Re ‘no one wants to work anymore’ - and if they ever did.

Many people are industrious and want to work. If there is a national air of positivity around the concept of work then it becomes about more than earning wage. It becomes a matter of pride.

Compare the bowler hat man in the underground in the 60s with the wfh IT consultant of today. One ‘earned’ his right through his fortitude to wear the uniform and in return he garnered respect. He earned his life’s privileges through his work and dedication.

In comparison, we probably wouldn’t be able to identify the IT consultant. They could be in scruffy jeans, in the pub in the middle of the day. Or asleep. So where is the work ethic message for the next generation? If workers are not visible then nobody will want to become one. There is no sense of belonging or pride in ‘joining the workforce’.

This is going to end up one way I think. It will lead to a less productive, lower skilled but more entitled generation. Until we all get back to the understanding that work is hard and requires some fortitude and sacrifice in return for a certain lifestyle then productivity will slip. We also need to acknowledge that there are more benefits to working than money for both society and individual.

Work is and will always be about industry and productivity. Not blending it for a cushy home life where you can avoid seeing people you don’t like and swapping them for a dog. That’s not to say there isn’t a place for wfh. There is course is, especially as it helps ppl like me balance earning money with childcare. But it should definitely be the exception rather than the norm.

I think this has all started because what we saw as an acceptable commute started to get further and further away. People should find more local jobs. If you travel more than an hour per day to it from work then you shouldn’t have applied for that job in the first place. It isn’t within your vicinity. Find something closer.

This whole post is utter nonsense

“It isn’t within your vicinity. Find something closer.” Thanks for the advice. Millions are getting a lightbulb moment.

That’s sarcasm, by the way. @ididitsocanyou is so out of touch I thought it prudent to point it out. Your bowler hat man vs scruffy IT is a work of genius. That’s also sarcasm.

My DP has started drinking at 4.30pm daily when he didn't usually get home till after 6.30pm. the savings in petrol have been used up as he now gambles every night. He has put on weight, rarely goes out and we argue all the time
I have been in and out of the office over the past year only really WFH in the 2 strict lockdowns. I have lost weight, gone back to uni and have a social life.
The isolation of enforced WFH is shocking on a person's MH. I agree with having a choice but some companies see this as a way of reducing their costs and passing them on to their staff.
I can't even clean my home as he is still working after I get back. I just want him out the home and facing his boss so he is more accountable for his behaviour.

[quote Hekatestorch]@Rozziie so you are looking for another in office Job?

Its you who is missing the point so spectacularly. You are throwing wild statements around about how selfish it is to want to wfh and you work full remotely and intend to keep doing it, to make your own life better.

@Tealightsandd the bus is free at the point of use. You knew exactly what I meant. It has to be so people can get to the hospital because public transport is so poor.

Also if people used public transport to get around and see family and friends at weekends, they still will at weekends. The people who will not be 'jumping in their cars instead' would have driven anyway.

For the most part, they don't have a car and then take public transport at weekends.[/quote]
OMG I'm actually laughing hysterically now. If what you got from my posts is that I want to keep WFH to make my life better, there's no talking to you, is there? Just keep living on your own little planet, twisting people's words into something not resembling anything they originally said and arguing against points nobody actually made.

@Rozziie I'm not sure why you're labelling @Hekatestorch posts as incoherent as you really aren't making a lot of sense yourself.

I agree . After my neighbour caused a fire I am having a nightmare getting the insurance sorted out as they are working from home .

I think both socially and practically there needs to be a better balance as it’s damaging for people’s physical and mental health , plus like you say we risk losing local services . I think it has highlighted a need for flexibility but a total blanket work from home policy is not good .

I don’t actually understand why anyone is still working from home anyway , I work in a school and have down throughout all the lockdowns and there are hundreds of us all in the building every day . We need to get back to normality for the sake of our children to avoid making this unhealthy balance a precedent for their future.

@Tealightsandd

It can only be a good thing that people are allowed to prioritise life over work rather than work over life.

Not good if it's the privileged only. Those with the luxury of a home environment suitable for WFH. Fuck the rest, eh?

Times change and how things get done change.

Not always for the best.

We're on a marathon sprint towards turning into a Brazil or India. Friends from both those countries hate how it is there - the terrible inequality. Drastic extremes of rich and poor. A wealthy minority living very well indeed - and an increasingly desperate destitute majority, with no or limited access to essential public services.

Sad that so many welcome this.

I agree.

But are you surprised? You've seen the vile, selfish way people think from posts on this thread.

Who cares if public transport gets slashed? Only old people use it.

We shouldn't run half empty trains just because disabled people might need them.

Anyone who doesn't want to work in a damaging way they didn't sign up for should change career.

I don't care if young people aren't getting support in the workplace - not my problem.

This is what you have to contend with. It's a hopeless battle. The two tier society is already here - you saw it during covid. The middle classes comfortably working from home, baking bread on the aga and drinking gin in the garden while poor people had to go out and expose themselves to covid for their minimum wage jobs. And these people want to keep that going because guess what...they're alright, Jack!

For now.