To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

I'M alright, Jack! In MY area only the elderly use the bus anyway! Nobody else could possibly have a different reality where they live, because that's not MY situation! It's all about ME and MY life!"

God you really just babble. It's like you are losing your grip on reality

The buses here are mainly frequented by the elderly.....who are using still using them.

There's no less people using public transport here, because no one can use it for work because its poor.

Is it your suggestion that people in this area, should start using public transport here, even though its poor, because someone else's area has a few quiet buses?

That won't impact anything in anyone else's area.

I am thinking you should get yourself back to the office, even if that means changing your job, and use public transport so hopefully they improve it in another area. Seems fair?

What do you do to improve public transport in an area you don't live in?

@Yourcatisnotsorry

Most employers in my sector seem to be encouraging back to the office now which would imply they think productivity has fallen. I have a long commute and small kids so on the whole I prefer wfh but if my office was a 5 min walk away I’d be there most days. The impact on social, emotional, physical health etc. are severe for some. More junior people need to learn from listening in to some degree which is much harder wfh. Poor performance is much harder to manage from home.

Same here. I personally am thrilled to be back in office and we are getting so much more done. Wfh was good 2 years ago when people pulled all the stops out, now they're just getting sloppier and getting back to the office is the solution

@Hekatestorch

I'M alright, Jack! In MY area only the elderly use the bus anyway! Nobody else could possibly have a different reality where they live, because that's not MY situation! It's all about ME and MY life!"

God you really just babble. It's like you are losing your grip on reality

The buses here are mainly frequented by the elderly.....who are using still using them.

There's no less people using public transport here, because no one can use it for work because its poor.

Is it your suggestion that people in this area, should start using public transport here, even though its poor, because someone else's area has a few quiet buses?

That won't impact anything in anyone else's area.

I am thinking you should get yourself back to the office, even if that means changing your job, and use public transport so hopefully they improve it in another area. Seems fair?

What do you do to improve public transport in an area you don't live in?

I just babble?! Talk about pot and kettle!

I'm clearly talking in general, about everything, whereas you're totally incapable of imagining any life outside your own.

I'm saying that generally, if people keep working from home en masse, public transport services will be scaled back. It's already happening. Trains that used to be four times an hour are now twice an hour and/or shorter, and much more crowded. In areas where a lot of people do rely on public transport, including those who need to use it every day, that's going to make a lot of people's lives more difficult.

As another poster noted, this means that when people DO need to use it for their day a week in the office, the journey is likely to be much longer and much more unpleasant than before.

You have this weird habit of putting words into my mouth and coming out with outlandish statements I never made..."Is it your suggestion that people in this area, should start using public transport here, even though its poor, because someone else's area has a few quiet buses?" Show me where I said that!

Good God...it's like trying to talk to a toddler.

@Hekatestorch

I find it really odd on these threads how every assumes public transport is actually usually for large amounts of people, everywhere in the country.

Pre pandemic and now the only people here using public transport are the elderly. It's not frequent enough to sensibly use for work. Also skips far too often, it's just not reliable. Most people drive, walk, cycle or use taxis. The vast majority of people in this area are working in warehouses. Rather than office workers

There's the same elderly people on the bus now as there was before. But wfh, isn't impacting it.

I am afraid you have made a massive sweeping generalisation in this comment.

Many people on low icomes who cannot afford to run their own cars use public transport. Many children use it to go to schools, especially if they live in rural areas and need to take the bus to their nearest high school in a town or city.

Also, a lot of school leavers have to use the bus to get to college and their work experience placements. This is because they cannot take their driving tests until they are 17 and even then they may not have access to a car. It can be really hard for students in rural areas to use public transport to get to colleges or their work placements if they are out in the sticks, but this is a reality for a lot of young people.

I know this is a problem as a help young people find work experiences whilst they are at college and I live in a rural area.

Young people rely heavily on public transport, but you are right when you say it is not reliable, but it is the only option for a lot of people in this country.

@Rozziie yes a toddler. That has more sense than you.

I mentioned my area, to make a point that wfh hasn't impacted public transport in every area. So the 'you have to go back to work to support public transport' is just irrelevant. Making people return to an office here won't impact the public transport.

Again, YOU need to stop working remotely and start travelling into an office everyday. Because anything else is just making it about YOU. You aren't think over everyone else.

Practice what you preach.

Again, the hypocrisy is amazing. You can can talk about how transport will be impacted in YOUR area. But anyone talking about and alternative view is making it 'all about MMMEEEE!'

Just bizarre.

It is true what Rozzie says for anyone that lives outside of London and it's commuter belt and and a handful of cities, in the the northwest local transport is gash. I could not get from my home to my son's school or to my place of work on public transport, and any public transport that there is takes an hour for what is 10 mins by car and is often hourly or twice a day, also unreliable and expensive. I can get to big cities quick though, Liverpool is 30 mins by train, London is 1.5 hours from Crewe, Manchester in 40 mins. But local or anywhere that is not a city -no.

I am afraid you have made a massive sweeping generalisation in this comment.

No I am not note my use of the word 'here'. As in where I live. I have made an observation on the town I live in.

Many people on low icomes who cannot afford to run their own cars use public transport. Many children use it to go to schools, especially if they live in rural areas and need to take the bus to their nearest high school in a town or city.

My parrtner works in warehouse. We live in an ex-mining town that's quite rural. Again, people can't use the transport for work or college because its unreliable, odd times and takes far too long when running smoothly. It's something lots of people have been trying to get improved.

Also, a lot of school leavers have to use the bus to get to college and their work experience placements. This is because they cannot take their driving tests until they are 17 and even then they may not have access to a car. It can be really hard for students in rural areas to use public transport to get to colleges or their work placements if they are out in the sticks, but this is a reality for a lot of young people.

Again, students can't use it. All the surrounding colleges and 6th forms have dedicated transport, because public transport can not be relied upon to get them where they need to be on time.

I know this is a problem as a help young people find work experiences whilst they are at college and I live in a rural area.

I work with 2 local colleges. And I can tell you without dedicated private transport, students aren't getting to college or school.

Young people rely heavily on public transport, but you are right when you say it is not reliable, but it is the only option for a lot of people in this country.

Its not an option at all here unfortunately. This is why a large amount of kids walk or bike to school.

And again. I am speaking about my area, where I am very involved in the local community.

Yes, decreased demand for public transit will likely result in scaled-down operations, including fewer routes and times. If demand ticks back up when some people return to the office, then some of those routes and times will be re-added. But it will probably never be at the scale it was before, because unless everyone is ordered to return 5 days/week, the demand for it will never be what it was before.

I guess what I'm missing is, why is this a huge problem? Many people never used public transit to begin with, and for many others, no longer having to use it is a large part of the appeal of WFH. If someone is only commuting 2-3 days per week, then even if their commute is longer due to fewer buses/trains running, they'll probably still spend less time per week commuting than they did before. Funding cuts to public transit would mean more money left in the pot for other programs that might more effectively address the needs of people who truly need it, without all the redundancy and waste involved in running near-empty trains so one visually impaired person can get to work at a specific time.

I'd like to be in office 3 days a week. Miss the banter and socialising and general ease of being able to go ask someone a question without Skype calls etc.
We don't have a spare room for a study and can't afford to upgrade to a larger house, so we have laptops, cables and an office chair constantly in the dining room. Bloody hate it!
Agree it's bad for mental health aswell, I don't like being stuck inside all day, the journey back from work would help me unwind. Now I just walk to the cupboard and have a gin instead!

@Rozziie
You're missing the obvious point that's services that are scaled back, will be scaled back because they're not being used.
Sit is the job of logistics departments to decide how many trains are needed and where and that is exactly what they'll do as a response.
Your argument seems to be that people should pay for services that are not useful because some people may want to use them, but not enough people to create a response to that demand on their own strength. If you can't grasp why that is a bit silly, there isn't much else to be said to you.

Without a doubt it's bad for mental and physical health and terrible for the economy. It needs to stop.

daisytweet
Without a doubt it's bad for mental and physical health and terrible for the economy. It needs to stop.

Sorry but I don't agree with your sweeping statements.
WFH is not universally bad for everyone. I love it.

I agree - there's no limit to your workload, no such thing as not enough time to complete things. My employer knows we are typing all evening and often weekends, but it can be ignored when it can't be seen. Also very sedentary, my partner hardly leaves the house. Not healthy for the mind or body, for some. I can see the attraction for those losing long commutes, are who can just stop working at a set time. Public transport is definitely stuffed.

@daisytweet

Without a doubt it's bad for mental and physical health and terrible for the economy. It needs to stop.

Speak for yourself. It's been great for mine.

It's been detrimental in my team. Most staff have chosen to go PT (fortunately it's quite an easy option in my line of work). I just feel completely drained after a day of WFH that I never had in the office. I think it's the concentration, screen time, isolation. When I was in the office I took more regular breaks, chatted with colleagues about non work stuff, was generally less productive. I have had to go PT as I couldn't cope with being stuck on my own with a laptop5 days a week any more. It turns my brain to Kelly's

Jelly!

Spot on!

"Speak for yourself. It's been great for mine."

Yes, people's circumstances will vary.
How has it been good for your health? I can see some people who used to drive to work using that time to exercise, but in general it's better to be active as a normal part of your day so walking, taking public transport to work or parking a bit further away are more sustainable ways of making sure you're active. Also, most people are much more active at the office, with the walk to the kitchen, printer or toilet being much more than at home. I can't believe many people live in a house where the kitchen and toilet are further away from them than in the office.

As for mental health, yes I suppose a minority of people are happy to interact with their family only or see friends every day, but most people will have more interactions if they go out to work. Talking to people through a screen only is really not the same.

"Many people never used public transit to begin with"

Have you got stats for that?? The big concentrations of people are in cities and in cities people do use public transport.

Even fashion has been affected by wfh…. Items of clothing that were seasonal staples have been dropped for leisure, lounge, active and outdoor wear. I rarely see heels being worn or skirts,… nor men in suits. Personally I lament this. People are sleep walking into elasticated waist bands while wfh… I liked distinct fashion trends

Love wfh and so does my partner.Housework always done ,going for walks on lunch breaks.Not eating lunch at the desk and doing silly overtime quite often simply to avoid the rush hour.Couldnt be happier

"I think it's a bit perverse to say that WFH is a bad thing because a lack of commuting is affecting public transport and food outlets. Surely these should be remodelled to reflect different demands. "

They're not being remodelled though are they. The lunch cafes and shops that exist in town and city centres aren't moving to residential areas because there isn't enough of a concentration of workers there.

@calvados

Even fashion has been affected by wfh…. Items of clothing that were seasonal staples have been dropped for leisure, lounge, active and outdoor wear. I rarely see heels being worn or skirts,… nor men in suits. Personally I lament this. People are sleep walking into elasticated waist bands while wfh… I liked distinct fashion trends

Getting fat as well.

@Aggy35

Love wfh and so does my partner.Housework always done ,going for walks on lunch breaks.Not eating lunch at the desk and doing silly overtime quite often simply to avoid the rush hour.Couldnt be happier

Housework always done? But you have more housework because you're home all the time. I don't get that at all. Yes, you can put the washing machine on while you work, but you also have to make every meal at home and tidy up after yourself. Why can't you go on a walk on your lunch break from the office?

Have wfh for 16 years and it’s had a negative affect on me in many ways as I am less connected and confident with people. You also have less opportunity to learn from others. In the end I think it is not a good thing. But the upside is convenience. I got to stay home with my children and there are fewer politics to deal with. I have time. But I also get demotivated. Plus you are not seen so you don’t get people elevating you and you miss out on countless opportunities because you are not exposed to life. I am glad as wfh suited me but my career has suffered. I wonder how far I could have got if I had been seen and present and met people with influence. In the end the people who work from home will erode away I’m afraid. 80 percent of success is, after all, just showing up.