To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

I think it's a bit perverse to say that WFH is a bad thing because a lack of commuting is affecting public transport and food outlets. Surely these should be remodelled to reflect different demands. More local transport is needed perhaps - many, many communities have no transport in the evening or on Sundays. And bars and cafes probably need to relocate. It's similar to saying that WFH is bad for commercial landlords - of course it is.

@PurpleOkapi

You think public transport service isn't affected by user numbers? How much of a bubble do you live in? Plenty of places have no or almost no public transport. My local line is down to two trains an hour, and I'm in London. Very inconvenient and not covid safe, because the trains that do arrive are pretty packed.

But let me guess, you're alright because you've got a car?

If someone has a car and drove to work anyway, whether they WFH or not has no impact on public transit usage or funding. But are you seriously trying to argue that people who don't want to return to the office should be required to do so because some of them will commute using public transit, thus increasing its usage figures and shoring up its funding? And that those reluctant to do it are the selfish ones, while those demanding that everyone else rearrange their lives for the benefit of a minority of people who rely on public transit are just "doing what's right"?

No, the point is that people who want to WFH most of the time and only go into the office occasionally or 1/2 days per week by public transport, are going to get a rude awakening when their old journey now takes longer due to more stops, or isn't as frequent, or has fewer carriages or costs more. They can't expect to enjoy the same public transport that they previously had if there are far fewer passengers using it on a daily basis.

That may be irrelevant to those who didn't use public transport, but they, too, may find the now occasional commute more time consuming, more congested, etc., if lots of people are now using cars to do the occasional commute if public transport is more expensive, less frequent, etc.

The point is that people need to accept that the "new normal" will be different in lots of ways. From what I've read, it seems a lot of people seem to think that everything will be just the same and that their journey will be the same (though less often) and that they'll still be able to enjoy their shopping, cafe culture, etc as if nothing's happened.

There is not holding this back. Its cheaper. Its better for people mental health once they realise they can invest their free time locally, with exercise, family or friends. My job doesn't allow to work from home normally but I can see the positive effect on my husband. Instead of commuting her goes for a run. Eats a healthy lunch, sees more of the kids and even has time for a hobby. And he works long hours when required. I can see him much happier. I think the focus of people lives will naturally focus to be more local. And new staff are so much more savvy with online life that I don't think they will miss out much on learning in person

Trouble is - for the world to survive we must do less travel, less unnecessary consumption. Yes, this will impact transport and sandwich bars. But we can't expect things to change but remain exactly the same!

I agree that lower user numbers will impact cost & frequency of public transport services. However I would argue that the vast majority of people who wfh during the pandemic already had that ability to do so before & remote working was already a growing trend, London & places like Richmond had a much higher % of remote workers than other parts of the UK.

"The percentage of people who mainly work from home in the United Kingdom reached 17.4 percent in 2020, compared with 14.2 percent in the previous year"

Wfh means I'm not paying a fortune in commuting and wrap around childcare costs, arriving at work exhausted and stressed and then having to come home on sometimes unreliable public transport to rush through the bedtime routine, staying up to do chores before being too wound up to get a decent night's rest.

Wfh means I can have a desk with a window, the room temperature the way I want it, quiet to concentrate without interruptions from open plan office chatter and music, time to put on a load of laundry during lunch, time to get my child for an afternoon online lesson or take a walk in less polluted areas or any number or pleasant break options.
WFH means I don't catch every single lurgy that's going around when people come to work with colds, flu, tonsillitis or worse.

We might not be using services where we used to work but probably using more local, small companies.. which is a good thing. I didn't used to shop in town where I live but now do

I now have a mixture of both and it works really well for me. I love WFH, but I can get rather lonely in the house on my own all day when my daughter is at school, but I do hate the pokey office I have to work in, and the less said about the traffic jams the better.

However, I think it is proper messing my cat up now that I am going into the office some days a week. He goes away for days and nights on end as I am not home to let him in any time he wants to come in. Then when he does comes home he hangs around me perpetually checking I won't leave him outside alone.

Do you think this is a good enough excuse to WFH all the time?

I wish I could afford to have a cat flap installed.

@Greensmurf1

Wfh means I'm not paying a fortune in commuting and wrap around childcare costs, arriving at work exhausted and stressed and then having to come home on sometimes unreliable public transport to rush through the bedtime routine, staying up to do chores before being too wound up to get a decent night's rest.

Wfh means I can have a desk with a window, the room temperature the way I want it, quiet to concentrate without interruptions from open plan office chatter and music, time to put on a load of laundry during lunch, time to get my child for an afternoon online lesson or take a walk in less polluted areas or any number or pleasant break options.
WFH means I don't catch every single lurgy that's going around when people come to work with colds, flu, tonsillitis or worse.

Amen to this. These are all valid reasons for WFH.

Also, seeing as the government is going to reduce the £20 weekly Universal booster for low-income families, it means many parents may struggle to afford travel into work and car parking fees.

Totally agree. WFH looking at the same four walls day in day out. Listening to OH on his work phone droning on all day has gradually driven me barmy. None of my colleagues are that keen to go back to work so I am actually now actively job hunting because of it. And probably a divorce too 😂

The public transport in my area has been minimal for over a decade already. Trains still run thankfully, though not because of commuters but because our station it's an only connection to a very popular tourist spot. Local independent shops have also been in decline for a decade. But cafés are doing very well and online businesses as well.

For me hybrid is ideal. I started a new job in lockdown and I was surprised at how hard I found it not being able to ask random questions easily, and I really missed overhearing conversations in the office and the way you pick up stuff in a new job by osmosis almost. As of this month we have to go in at least three days a week - any less and we would have to switch over to a home working contract with no London weighting, so less money. So far I’m really enjoying it - it is a novelty to put my work clothes back on rather than t-shirts and jeans (or nice tops and jeans if I had meetings), but my lunch from Pret etc. It is a bit of a shock to the system losing so much time to commuting again - though partly this is about learning where to get on and off the tube as I’m commuting to a new place, and getting used to a new journey.

I am finding I’m probably less productive in the office due to chatting to people but it’s all valuable in terms of learning the job and making connections. I’m a middle manager but the team I manage are all older than me and have been there for years and years so for us there’s no issues about teaching younger staff the ropes. I think in an ideal world I would do two days in the office and three from home rather than vice versa. Still hoping to convince management of that!

WFH has been great for DH. He’s saved around £2k on travel costs as well as dry cleaning costs. He is fitter than before because he can easily spend half an hour exercising during his lunch hour which he couldn’t do when working in London. It has been good for our local parade of independent shops who have all seen an upturn in custom because people can shop locally as they are at home while the shops are open rather than having to go to the out of town supermarket because it’s open late. He is more productive too so it looks like this really is going to be his new normal.

I work in the nhs where they was limited opportunity to WFH but when I did I loved it. I do think that there may be a reduction in salary though. For example if you live in London you don’t need as much London weighting if you’re not travelling in and can live much further afield. Plus for a Uk businesses they’re may not be a need to hirer Uk people as WFH could be working from anywhere in the world which means they could employ people from countries where wages are much lower and still get the same productivity. So I suppose we have to be careful about what we wish for

Completely agree - there are many more negatives, particularly in relation to mental health and difficulty with dividing work and domestic life. People are missing the social connection. It is good to be given the option though.

@Hekatestorch

I genuinely I'm starting to think you're either purposely misinterpreting absolutely everything I've said or just a bit thick

Nice! You mean you can't see your own hypocrisy.

Fair enough. Not much anyone can say when you call people selfish, for doing exactly what you are doing.

Sigh. I'm not doing that, though, am I? See the above comment.

Your driving license application has either been lost, or your bullshitting. I applied for a replacement and it took 2 weeks to arrive.

Same here. Did it online and it came quickly. It is true, however, that you can’t get through to them on the phone as I had a query and tried for three days. In the end, I reported it as lost as the system wouldn’t recognise the issue number.

@Hekatestorch

I find it really odd on these threads how every assumes public transport is actually usually for large amounts of people, everywhere in the country.

Pre pandemic and now the only people here using public transport are the elderly. It's not frequent enough to sensibly use for work. Also skips far too often, it's just not reliable. Most people drive, walk, cycle or use taxis. The vast majority of people in this area are working in warehouses. Rather than office workers

There's the same elderly people on the bus now as there was before. But wfh, isn't impacting it.

"I'M alright, Jack! In MY area only the elderly use the bus anyway! Nobody else could possibly have a different reality where they live, because that's not MY situation! It's all about ME and MY life!"

You can't just say 'everybody back'! In some cases it works, others it doesn't. I'm CS and you would have no idea when I phoned you where I was. I am more productive at home, some people are, some aren't, I have a better work/life balance because I can be disciplined about closing the door to my 'office' - some people can, some can't. So my local (work) coffee shop has lost my custom, my local (home) one has gained it. Swings and roundabouts. One size most certainly doesn't fit all.

I agree. Wfh is clearly not effective otherwise the DVLA etc would be functioning normally. My friend today said she worked so hard at home that she hasn’t had time to put washing out or take dog for a walk. I might try taking my washing into my office?
It will affect the transport infrastructure massively long term.
If a job can be done at home in the UK it can be done at home in another, cheaper location.

Um…

I like doing both.

(Crawls back under her rock…)

Most employers in my sector seem to be encouraging back to the office now which would imply they think productivity has fallen. I have a long commute and small kids so on the whole I prefer wfh but if my office was a 5 min walk away I’d be there most days. The impact on social, emotional, physical health etc. are severe for some. More junior people need to learn from listening in to some degree which is much harder wfh. Poor performance is much harder to manage from home.

@Rozziie A few yrs ago I deliberately looked for a job closer to home without a tube commute. I now walk to work, I never once considered public transport workers when making my decision. For the last 5 yrs when going out I've taken cabs instead of tubes at night, again I didn't consider public transport workers in that decision.

If a job can be done at home in the UK it can be done at home in another, cheaper location.

That's way too simplistic & again ignores the fact many people in high paying roles already have the option to remote work.

@bellocchild

My real pleasure at going to an office, especially in winter, was a busy atmosphere; lights on, colleagues to chat to in the kitchen, go out to lunch with, and have meetings with. WFH has its benefits of course, but it can be lonely during the dark days of winter.

I feel the complete opposite. I hate going to the office in winter, there’s nothing more depressing than going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark. At home I can make more of the daylight.