To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

WFH would've been disastrous for me in my 20s. I'd have been so isolated, miserable, depressed. Office life was so much more than work. Social interaction, mentoring - learning in person is irreplaceable. So many natural unconscious moments of networking. And the social life side. The bonding with your team. Lunches and nights out with new friends from work. It's such a shame to deprive the young of that valuable life experience and opportunity.

As people say wrt Covid. The young have already missed out on so much.

The young have already missed out on so much
Still, I fail to see why I should inconvenience myself by dragging my butt into the office every day, at the expense of my own children and my mental health, just so 20-something strangers who I don’t give a shit about can learn from me.

Long boozy lunches have been a thing of the past for years and there’s nothing stopping young people from going out in the evening.

@RosyPoesy

The young have already missed out on so much Still, I fail to see why I should inconvenience myself by dragging my butt into the office every day, at the expense of my own children and my mental health, just so 20-something strangers who I don’t give a shit about can learn from me.

Ever heard of the concept of 'giving back'? I'm sure people were there to help and mentor you in your younger years, and now it's your turn to return the favour and do your bit, you don't want to. Ever considered that the '20-something strangers you don't give a shit about' are someone else's children?

This attitude is what I detest most about Britain. People just out for themselves, thinking of themselves, rinsing society for what they can get out of it and giving nothing back.

@LadyWithLapdog

Long boozy lunches have been a thing of the past for years and there’s nothing stopping young people from going out in the evening.

After-work drinks definitely haven't, though. They were a lifesaver for me when I moved to London a few years ago. Great not just for bonding with your colleagues but also making proper friends.

Who are people supposed to go out with if they don't know anyone? Yes, there are Meetup groups etc. but it takes a lot of nerve to attend one of those and it's a huge ask for someone with anxiety to meet up with a bunch of total strangers off an app. It also means you need to have the motivation to do it - if someone is already lethargic and depressed, it's not likely they'll be up for it, whereas being forced to get out of the house and go to work makes it an obligation.

@RosyPoesy

The young have already missed out on so much Still, I fail to see why I should inconvenience myself by dragging my butt into the office every day, at the expense of my own children and my mental health, just so 20-something strangers who I don’t give a shit about can learn from me.

Maybe because you may not have been in the favourable position you're in today if the older/experienced staff didn't give you training, mentoring, etc., when you first joined the workplace!

@RosyPoesy

The young have already missed out on so much Still, I fail to see why I should inconvenience myself by dragging my butt into the office every day, at the expense of my own children and my mental health, just so 20-something strangers who I don’t give a shit about can learn from me.

Yet, I suspect you want other "strangers" to train and mentor your children when they join the workplace!

Well then I'm not talking about you, am I? I'm talking about the people who go to Tenerife every year for cheap and are expecting to resume that when they feel like it again, or who go to the continent on the Eurostar and expect to keep doing it after the pandemic for the same low prices they did before. If Eurostar stops running because nobody is using it, that's most likely it. We then have no train service to the continent and are even more cut off than before. Perhaps you would enjoy living in Little England but I certainly wouldn't.

Oh so if people flew alot before, they have to resume ASAP, to benefit you?

What's the cut off, if they flew once a year or more? Some people will have flown then and won't fly again. Or reduce the number of flights they want to take

Again, no obligation for them to resume old habits because that habit directly benefitted you

Who says any of these people expect it to be the same again. Most people know how it works and know if there isn't the demand services will disappear or become more expensive. Still doesn't obligate them to do anything, now.

And do fuck off with your little England comment. I am not even from England. I just know there are more ways of leaving the country than flying, so often don't.

You are complaining people are rhinking about themselves whilst onlying thinking about yourself and trying to make out taht if people did something before the pandemic, they must do it after

Totally unrealistic.

@Tealightsandd

WFH would've been disastrous for me in my 20s. I'd have been so isolated, miserable, depressed. Office life was so much more than work. Social interaction, mentoring - learning in person is irreplaceable. So many natural unconscious moments of networking. And the social life side. The bonding with your team. Lunches and nights out with new friends from work. It's such a shame to deprive the young of that valuable life experience and opportunity.

I’m in my 20s and wfh is way better for me. Young people are used to socialising online, we grew up on MSN and social media so are perfectly capable of talking to colleagues on Teams. I’ve literally never been on a night out with coworkers anywhere I’ve worked in person. That only happens if your team are similar ages I think which is quite rare - the next youngest person in my team is 10 years older than me with a toddler and there are others old enough to be my parents. I’ve just had a promotion and I’m having mentoring via video so we aren’t being deprived of opportunities - if people are missing out on stuff it’s because their employer (or them) are being crap, not due to being at home.

@Tealightsandd

The world's changed.

America, including New York City, is back to work. In offices.

The USA has recognised the value in it. For the many people lacking the privilege of comfortable home working environment (eg the young and the poor), and also (perhaps more importantly for the politicians and big businesses) for the national economy.

And what? I wouldn't want to work in the US for a US company. Why would we look to the US for an improvement in the workplace?

The US also don't have any decent mat leave, shall we follow them in that too or are we just picking and choosing?

As for young people any manager really does need to ensure the younger people are getting experience and opportunities to learn. Many companies have had international teams for years and young people have been able to learn and get opportunities.

If young people on a company are being ignored, it's because it's a shit company.

@Hekatestorch

Well then I'm not talking about you, am I? I'm talking about the people who go to Tenerife every year for cheap and are expecting to resume that when they feel like it again, or who go to the continent on the Eurostar and expect to keep doing it after the pandemic for the same low prices they did before. If Eurostar stops running because nobody is using it, that's most likely it. We then have no train service to the continent and are even more cut off than before. Perhaps you would enjoy living in Little England but I certainly wouldn't.

Oh so if people flew alot before, they have to resume ASAP, to benefit you?

What's the cut off, if they flew once a year or more? Some people will have flown then and won't fly again. Or reduce the number of flights they want to take

Again, no obligation for them to resume old habits because that habit directly benefitted you

Who says any of these people expect it to be the same again. Most people know how it works and know if there isn't the demand services will disappear or become more expensive. Still doesn't obligate them to do anything, now.

And do fuck off with your little England comment. I am not even from England. I just know there are more ways of leaving the country than flying, so often don't.

You are complaining people are rhinking about themselves whilst onlying thinking about yourself and trying to make out taht if people did something before the pandemic, they must do it after

Totally unrealistic.

FFS, for the THIRD time now, it's not about ME! Unlike most of the people on this thread who are utterly selfish, I seem to possess a capacity which is very rare in today's Britain - the ability to see the world outside of my own tiny life.

I don't often fly either, because I hate it. I am one of the minority of people lucky enough to be 20 minutes away from the Eurostar terminal. But unlike you, I'm not an 'I'm Alright Jack' type. I am concerned about the whole travel industry and the impact of it folding. I'm concerned about young people finding it really hard to see the world outside the UK. I'm concerned about the impact on trade. There are plenty of reasons to be concerned about the travel industry (not just airlines) collapsing that don't involve going off on a jolly to the Canaries.

The key to looking to when to emulate other countries is to follow the good (eg. real life in person human interaction + interests of national economy - which impacts on us all, except the very richest), but not the bad (eg. no maternity leave, etc).

We've been repeatedly told that the national economy is vital enough that we must accept 100-200 a day being killed and many more left disabled or long term ill. It's why we didn't get on top off Covid early on (ironically leaving us with both a very high death rate and the showest recovering economy in the developed world). That same national economy - that's important enough for so many to die for - relies heavily on the office based industries.

• slowest

Look at the 20 something poster a couple of posts up. It's not healthy. Already used to a more insular life - spent on social media as opposed to irreplaceable real life human interaction. She refers to looking to meet people her own age and at the same life stage. That's all she expects. She's missing out on being exposed to the rich diverse mix of people in an office - old and young, varied backgrounds, job roles, and life experiences. Nothing virtual can fully compensate for the subtle unconscious networking, social interaction, and professional (and personal) development of the physical office world.

Ever considered that the '20-something strangers you don't give a shit about' are someone else's children?
Not my children, not my problem 🤷‍♀️

FFS, for the THIRD time now, it's not about ME! Unlike most of the people on this thread who are utterly selfish, I seem to possess a capacity which is very rare in today's Britain - the ability to see the world outside of my own tiny life.

But it is about you. If may be about other people, bit it's something you were bothered about because it also effects you. You want the eurostar running when you want it and Cheap.

No actually, you don't. You are looking at what impacts you caring about that covering it with 'ots not about me it's about others in similar positions'

Don't you work remotely?

Do you know you can give back to younger people, not just in your own organisation? You don't need to be in the office. I really hope you spend alot of time outside your job, mentoring young people.

You don't need to travel if you don't want to. It's really patronising to think you must be right because you take the euro star.

You are acting like you are a rarity, you aren't.

Prices of things go up and down. Cheap air travel is relatively new and people managed to have good careers, different points of views and have varied experiences.

Cheap air travel is not a right. Its certainly not something other people have to do, so others can get it cheaper.

You are bothered about what impacts you. What about people who are bothered about their local coffee shops? Are you obliged to spend money in them? Because they benefit other people?

If hybrid or wfh or reducing travel makes people's lives better, it's ridiculous to say they shouldn't be allowed because others.

Less travel is good for everyone, fro. An environmental point of view.

I just beggars belief that you would expect someone to want to make their own life harder, so you (and others) can benefit.

What about people on London wages moving out of London and taking up house in more affordable areas, so they can finally buy a home? Pushing up those house prices and often pricing locals out? But while earning a bigger wage than that local person could get? I take it you think that's selfish too and can't believe people would contemplate it?

@RosyPoesy

Ever considered that the '20-something strangers you don't give a shit about' are someone else's children? Not my children, not my problem 🤷‍♀️

Wow. It's quite horrifying to see how some people think. Not much of a surprise - the events of the past 18 months have shown me how incredibly selfish many people are - but seeing it in black and white...wow.

I'm sure you'll be on here whingeing in 15 years about what a hard time your children are having without a trace of irony as well.

@Tealightsandd

Look at the 20 something poster a couple of posts up. It's not healthy. Already used to a more insular life - spent on social media as opposed to irreplaceable real life human interaction. She refers to looking to meet people her own age and at the same life stage. That's all she expects. She's missing out on being exposed to the rich diverse mix of people in an office - old and young, varied backgrounds, job roles, and life experiences. Nothing virtual can fully compensate for the subtle unconscious networking, social interaction, and professional (and personal) development of the physical office world.

It amazing me how patronising you are.

Someone tells you they are happy and you still can't accept it?

You think you know better than that her about wether she should be happy with teh situation?

Or do you just feel you need to patronise someone who you were using as an excuse to wfh?

Do you wfh? Or are you back in the office?

@Tealightsandd

Look at the 20 something poster a couple of posts up. It's not healthy. Already used to a more insular life - spent on social media as opposed to irreplaceable real life human interaction. She refers to looking to meet people her own age and at the same life stage. That's all she expects. She's missing out on being exposed to the rich diverse mix of people in an office - old and young, varied backgrounds, job roles, and life experiences. Nothing virtual can fully compensate for the subtle unconscious networking, social interaction, and professional (and personal) development of the physical office world.

Yes - it's very sad. She has no idea what she's missing out on. Her world is already tiny and sad and dull.

Having to do things that aren't always fun is part of life and part of social development. Learning to get on with people that aren't exactly like you, being exposed to different view points, etc. is an essential part of growing up. How can you possibly become a well-rounded person if all you do is talk to people your own age online?

@Hekatestorch

FFS, for the THIRD time now, it's not about ME! Unlike most of the people on this thread who are utterly selfish, I seem to possess a capacity which is very rare in today's Britain - the ability to see the world outside of my own tiny life.

But it is about you. If may be about other people, bit it's something you were bothered about because it also effects you. You want the eurostar running when you want it and Cheap.

No actually, you don't. You are looking at what impacts you caring about that covering it with 'ots not about me it's about others in similar positions'

Don't you work remotely?

Do you know you can give back to younger people, not just in your own organisation? You don't need to be in the office. I really hope you spend alot of time outside your job, mentoring young people.

You don't need to travel if you don't want to. It's really patronising to think you must be right because you take the euro star.

You are acting like you are a rarity, you aren't.

Prices of things go up and down. Cheap air travel is relatively new and people managed to have good careers, different points of views and have varied experiences.

Cheap air travel is not a right. Its certainly not something other people have to do, so others can get it cheaper.

You are bothered about what impacts you. What about people who are bothered about their local coffee shops? Are you obliged to spend money in them? Because they benefit other people?

If hybrid or wfh or reducing travel makes people's lives better, it's ridiculous to say they shouldn't be allowed because others.

Less travel is good for everyone, fro. An environmental point of view.

I just beggars belief that you would expect someone to want to make their own life harder, so you (and others) can benefit.

What about people on London wages moving out of London and taking up house in more affordable areas, so they can finally buy a home? Pushing up those house prices and often pricing locals out? But while earning a bigger wage than that local person could get? I take it you think that's selfish too and can't believe people would contemplate it?

It really seems to be beyond you to imagine that other people do see the wider picture and consider things that don't necessarily benefit them directly.

I don't have any kids and I might never have any. I could I'm Alright Jack it like most of the people on this thread. Why should I worry about young people when I'm alright? Why would I worry about the travel industry when I don't work in it? Why would I worry about someone in Glasgow becoming unable to visit their elderly parents in France when I can walk to St Pancras and hop on the train? Why would I worry about people in Cornwall being priced out when I live in London?

It's called not being a selfish, self centred arse. Perhaps you should try it.

What about people on London wages moving out of London and taking up house in more affordable areas, so they can finally buy a home? Pushing up those house prices and often pricing locals out?

What's good for the goose. Where do you suggest London locals go, when priced out of (even renting) a home by people from across the UK moving to London and taking the jobs and homes? Anyway if people leave London, there's been talk for a while now that they'll lose their London weighting (rightly so).

WFH won't solve the public health housing and homelessness emergency. It might, as you say, spread the problem from the capital of homelessness to elsewhere - so making things worse, not better.

Lots more social housing is the answer. And, of course, separately, a more even spread of work opportunities across the UK (although youth unemployment in London is highest in the UK, so London certainly needs opportunity for the less privileged).

The desperately needed social housing could be part funded by a healthy national economy, boosted by office based industries...

Just because the 20 something above prefers Wfh to working in the office does not mean her world is tiny and sad and dull!!!! Being in the office can be sad and dull too depending on your office environment. I always preferred working from home to being in the office,, even when I was young 20 something. I think it just suits different people, that's all. People learn in different ways and enjoy different environments. I'm guessing hybrid working will work best for most people. There's no need for this for working from home people to be pitted against working in the office people.

@Rozziie

"No such thing as society".... Thatcherism at its most brutal finest is alive and well.

You are right. It’s awful. However going back in 2 days a week and actually think that 2-3 days in the office may be the happy balance. So maybe Covid has allowed that.