To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

The desperately needed social housing could be part funded by a healthy national economy, boosted by office based industries...

Right, because that happened in all the pre-covid years when everyone worked in offices.

@Rozziie you are being selfish. You just think if you add 'but young people' (while disregarding a young person posting) and 'but cheap travel'

Again, you work remotely? Do you go buy a coffee everyday to benefit the staff?

Again, working remotely you are also part of the problem you are moaning about?

You completely ignored many things I said, because it doesn't suit you.

I have worked hybrid for years. No one has every expected me to not do out of some idea that my working life has to provide the maximum benefit to the rest of society. Rather than have a job that suits me and my family.

I take it you are ditching the remote job and also spending your spare time acting as a professional mentor?

@Tealightsandd

What about people on London wages moving out of London and taking up house in more affordable areas, so they can finally buy a home? Pushing up those house prices and often pricing locals out?

What's good for the goose. Where do you suggest London locals go, when priced out of (even renting) a home by people from across the UK moving to London and taking the jobs and homes? Anyway if people leave London, there's been talk for a while now that they'll lose their London weighting (rightly so).

WFH won't solve the public health housing and homelessness emergency. It might, as you say, spread the problem from the capital of homelessness to elsewhere - so making things worse, not better.

Lots more social housing is the answer. And, of course, separately, a more even spread of work opportunities across the UK (although youth unemployment in London is highest in the UK, so London certainly needs opportunity for the less privileged).

The desperately needed social housing could be part funded by a healthy national economy, boosted by office based industries...

Ah so it's OK for London people to not think about their impact on wider society if it benefits only themselves?

But no one else.

Also I know several companies who aren't removing London weighting. But it will be taken into consideration when pay rises are due.

But no immediate loss of wage.

I agree there are negative aspects to wfh - I go for a walk every day and have still gained weight, it's difficult to replicate that commute rush and lack of nearby kitchen!

And conversely I've lost over a stone, because I now have time to fit in a run in the morning and still be logged onto work earlier than I used to, because I'm not commuting for over an hour each morning.

Re the public health housing and homelessness emergency. Round my way, in an area with extremely high housing demand for those in desperate need, new homes are being built. Several new developments. Not one includes any social rented homes. Nor is the any of the so-called affordable housing to buy genuinely affordable for the average couple and particularly single person. It's a load of shoddily done overpriced new builds. That's the real problem with housing.

That inequality will only get worse with increased WFH. The huge numbers across the country living in overcrowded, often unsanitary, noisy, temporary accommodation and shitty private rented, and those who bought their home but are stuck in a too small for WFH household. They'll be fucked. Limited opportunities. They'll lose out to the people privileged enough to be able to afford a comfortable WFH environment.

Permanent full-time WFH will hit the poor and the young worst. Both on an individual level, and because of the wider impact on the national economy (that funds our valuable public services).

Fine, for the I'm Alright Jack's (until life happens and they find themselves or their families affected). Not so good for everyone else or for the country as a whole.

[quote Hekatestorch]@Rozziie you are being selfish. You just think if you add 'but young people' (while disregarding a young person posting) and 'but cheap travel'

Again, you work remotely? Do you go buy a coffee everyday to benefit the staff?

Again, working remotely you are also part of the problem you are moaning about?

You completely ignored many things I said, because it doesn't suit you.

I have worked hybrid for years. No one has every expected me to not do out of some idea that my working life has to provide the maximum benefit to the rest of society. Rather than have a job that suits me and my family.

I take it you are ditching the remote job and also spending your spare time acting as a professional mentor?[/quote]
Yes, I work remotely because I have to right now.

Not sure what you're banging on about re being selfish when I've literally just explained how most of my concerns are things that don't personally affect me at all, but whatever makes you happy.

Yes, I do try to spend my money in small businesses. I buy coffee, I get deliveries from a family-run bakery and basically do my best to support things I think would leave a hole if they didn't exist anymore. It would save me money not to do this. It would be handier to just do everything using big chain stores. I choose to do what I can to support others.

I already mentor young people, and have done for the last few years, in my spare time, for free. Many of them have found the last year absolutely horrendous and are now aghast at the thought that this might be the 'new normal'.

I've also in recent weeks been helping out sorting donations for Afghan refugees and working (for free) with English schools and tutors to organise English classes.

Yeah, wild, isn't it? Imagine caring about other people! Imagine doing things for people you don't know! Imagine worrying about things that don't directly affect you! I'm sure your head is exploding at the very thought.

Ah so it's OK for London people to not think about their impact on wider society if it benefits only themselves?

Eh? You brought London up - attacking the London 'people', who have been done over for decades. Priced out and nobody gives a shit. Highest youth unemployment. No-one cares. Capital of homelessness. No jots given by most. Meanwhile London is that only place in the country to pay out more in tax than it gets back. The money certainly isn't going to the disadvantaged youth or the 165,000 London homeless.

You're not being coherent. You say you want WFH - but you then complain about one of the consequences. People who moved to London, pricing out locals, now moving back out. You can't have it both ways.

I don't have any kids and I might never have any. I could I'm Alright Jack it like most of the people on this thread. Why should I worry about young people when I'm alright? Why would I worry about the travel industry when I don't work in it? Why would I worry about someone in Glasgow becoming unable to visit their elderly parents in France when I can walk to St Pancras and hop on the train? Why would I worry about people in Cornwall being priced out when I live in London?

Since my first graduate role (around 7 or 8 years ago), online training has been the norm.
Sometimes this takes place in a classroom, sometimes this is over a web conference. It honestly did not make a jot of difference to me whether it was in person or not.
I've always had some sort of internal IM system and most people of my age used it preferentially. I find it odd that people would rather be interrupted in the middle of their flow of work by someone coming over to their desk.
It is not as big of an adjustment as you seem to think it is.
Some people prefer office working and offices will persist because of them. The only difference is that people who do not and never have liked working in the office have other options now.
I spent most of the last decade in a state of mild depression and didn't really realise until the WFH mandate.
I had actually been pushing for more work from home days for a few months prior to the lockdowns, but my line manager eventually out a stop to it because of "how it looked" to who he reported to. Genuinely nothing to do with my efficiency, it just wasn't the norm and I didn't have an excuse other than I don't like commuting or working in an open office environment.

Who knew there could so much animosity regarding other people's working location preference.

I'm fairly certain you could think up equal amounts of for and againsts for WFH, hybrid and office. And I'm fairly certain solutions could be identified for many againsts.

I think it's wrong to say someone is selfish because their preference is different to how you feel something should operate. It's better to identify the areas of concern and look for solutions. Then, you may have an even better way of doing things.

It really is shocking how many people seem utterly incapable of thinking of anyone except themselves. Complete self absorption all over this thread. "WFH suits me and my family so screw everyone else."

I haven't seen anyone suggest that anyone who'd rather work from an office should be forced to WFH because their doing so is somehow better for others. I've seen a whole lot of the opposite, though, where people suggest that I and others who prefer WFH should be forced to work from an office because me doing is somehow better for others.

If you're married or have children, it's your moral responsibility to prioritise your spouse/children over others. I'm not about to tell my husband that he has to live somewhere he hates so that we can prop up the local coffee shop market. Bonus points because neither of us drinks coffee anyway.

@Rozziie @Tealightsandd

I’m glad you both think my life is so sad 🤣 my life is much bigger wfh because I have much more time to spend with my friends, family and DP instead of wasting it commuting and I can afford more hobbies and experiences now I have that £5k a year back in my pocket. I’ve spent 5 years working in offices in person and can’t say I gained anything from that that I couldn’t have from home. It’s because my team is a mixture of ages that we rarely socialise outside work (we get on threat, but people want to get home to their kids) but we chat all day on Teams and have frequent calls so it’s not like we don’t interact anymore now we’re at home.
My reference to MSN and social media from a young age clearly went over your heads - we used to come home from school and carry on chatting to our friends online, that’s not sad and insular 🤣

Great, not threat!

Not everyone needs or wants to be BFFs with their colleagues. I like most of mine well enough, but spending 8-12 hours per day with them was more than enough time together. I never did after-work drinks anyway, because I'd rather just go home and do something of my choosing with people of my choosing. If someone calls or emails me about a problem they're having with an assignment, or that's otherwise related to my area of responsibility, I'll help them. If someone calls or emails me about an interpersonal problem, I'll do my best to help them if I have time, but it's not actually my job to do this. My employer has an HR department, and I'm not in it. If WFH makes those boundaries starker in most people's minds, I don't think that's such a bad thing.

Who knew there could so much animosity regarding other people's working location preference.

bizarre!

I am concerned about the whole travel industry and the impact of it folding. I'm concerned about young people finding it really hard to see the world outside the UK. I'm concerned about the impact on trade. There are plenty of reasons to be concerned about the travel industry (not just airlines) collapsing that don't involve going off on a jolly to the Canaries.

I think you can wfh & still feel the same though?

Why would I worry about people in Cornwall being priced out when I live in London?

As a Londoner I don't worry about this tbh. I certainly empathise as it's been happening in London for years.

@gibletjane

I am concerned about the whole travel industry and the impact of it folding. I'm concerned about young people finding it really hard to see the world outside the UK. I'm concerned about the impact on trade. There are plenty of reasons to be concerned about the travel industry (not just airlines) collapsing that don't involve going off on a jolly to the Canaries.

I think you can wfh & still feel the same though?

It's hard to make solid plans with covid still an issue in most countries, but I expect to travel more because of WFH. Not being physically tethered to a specific location opens up a lot of possibilities there. For a while now, I've had plans in the back of my head for weeklong "working vacations" where I spend several hours per day working remotely, then enjoy some tropical scenery the rest of the time. I'm not going to do that while covid restrictions are in force everywhere, because too much can go sideways, but that's not a WFH problem.

Exactly

If I could, I’d choose 50/50 & I sort of do that but more home than work really.

Yeah, wild, isn't it? Imagine caring about other people! Imagine doing things for people you don't know! Imagine worrying about things that don't directly affect you! I'm sure your head is exploding at the very thought.

Except for most of what you have said doesn't make sense or match with the rest of your posts on here

You don't have to work remotely. It works best for you. If it was just best for your company, you would have resigned rather than be so selfish. If its due to health, you really should make yourself sicker to benefit everyone else. Because that's what you are saying, people aren't allowed to loom at what's best for them. They have to sacrifice what's best for them for society.

You definitely shouldn't be moving to a much poorer area of the country just so you can selfishly own a home. Its not what's best for everyone else.

See how much sense that makes? It doesn't.

Its virtue signally. Pretend you care. Tell everyone else how selfish wfh and refusing to travel is. While wfh and not wanting to travel yourself. Funny how its fine for YOU to do it in your circumstances and it's OK for you to out yourself first, but no one else is. It's actually only selfish by your own standards. I don't think it's selfish to loon after yourself when it come to your job and health. But by your own standards you are the horrible people you are talking about.

So short sighted it's unreal

@Tealightsandd

Ah so it's OK for London people to not think about their impact on wider society if it benefits only themselves?

Eh? You brought London up - attacking the London 'people', who have been done over for decades. Priced out and nobody gives a shit. Highest youth unemployment. No-one cares. Capital of homelessness. No jots given by most. Meanwhile London is that only place in the country to pay out more in tax than it gets back. The money certainly isn't going to the disadvantaged youth or the 165,000 London homeless.

You're not being coherent. You say you want WFH - but you then complain about one of the consequences. People who moved to London, pricing out locals, now moving back out. You can't have it both ways.

Um no, you aren't reading what u am putting.

I am not attacking anyone. I am incredulous that you and other printers think that people have to live their lives not regarding what works for them, but what benefits all of society most or are terrible people.

I mentioned London, not because I think London people are damaging the rest of the country but as an example of things that poster thinks is OK, because it would be if benefit to her. Even though it damages someone else.

She is complaining that people only think of themselves whilst only thinking of only herself.

I am also pretty sure 'London people' aren't offended.

I don't want to work from home I work hybrid and have done for years. Which I have said several times, if you can read. I also think hybrid, is the best compromise for most people (not all). You can be hybrid and work in the office most of the time. But having the choice is good.

I object to posters like you lying and being hypocritical, taking on quite serious issues, that you don't actily know much about and using it as a reason other people can't work from home if it suits them and their employer.

One of the 'you must all get back to work' posters is a remote worker and I am yet to see you actually say wetger you are at home or not, since you keep dodging questions about it. So again, hypocrites to tell people they must put everyone else first all the time, because that's what would suite them. Totally hypocritical.

You want people to act in a way that benefits you the most.

Its really quite odd and doesn't make sense. Like the posters who think dpa is broken by the simple act of having a laptop

@Hekatestorch

Yeah, wild, isn't it? Imagine caring about other people! Imagine doing things for people you don't know! Imagine worrying about things that don't directly affect you! I'm sure your head is exploding at the very thought.

Except for most of what you have said doesn't make sense or match with the rest of your posts on here

You don't have to work remotely. It works best for you. If it was just best for your company, you would have resigned rather than be so selfish. If its due to health, you really should make yourself sicker to benefit everyone else. Because that's what you are saying, people aren't allowed to loom at what's best for them. They have to sacrifice what's best for them for society.

You definitely shouldn't be moving to a much poorer area of the country just so you can selfishly own a home. Its not what's best for everyone else.

See how much sense that makes? It doesn't.

Its virtue signally. Pretend you care. Tell everyone else how selfish wfh and refusing to travel is. While wfh and not wanting to travel yourself. Funny how its fine for YOU to do it in your circumstances and it's OK for you to out yourself first, but no one else is. It's actually only selfish by your own standards. I don't think it's selfish to loon after yourself when it come to your job and health. But by your own standards you are the horrible people you are talking about.

So short sighted it's unreal

I have no idea what absolute nonsense you're even banging on about now. Keep grasping at straws and making no sense. I'll be on a thread with more coherent posters.

@Shurl

Not exactly relevant to your post... but can you chase up your licence? I got mine back in just over a week when I moved 7 weeks ago.

Me too when it was lost.

I don't understand the "priced out" stuff. As you've said, it's been a huge problem in London for a long time. Major US metro areas like New York City and San Francisco have the same problem: too many high-earning professionals competing for housing in a limited geographic area leaves working-class people like those vaunted coffee shop workers unable to afford housing. If some of those professionals are leaving the major cities and buying homes elsewhere, reducing prices in the major cities, why is that bad? Yes, it might drive up prices elsewhere, but why is that worse? Everyone has to live somewhere, so there's going to be the same amount of demand either way - the only thing at issue is how it's distributed throughout the country. Spreading it around seems inherently more fair, even without the added bonus of enabling more people to live where they want.

I like working from home but I am getting lazy and fat. I don’t want to go back but I need a kick up the bum. And I agree with your points about the economy.