To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

Exactly, don't they have deadlines & stuff to actually do. Surely a manager is waiting for the stuff they produce.

Yep. I'm told to do things by certain times, and I do them. I'm told to meet virtually with colleagues and clients and certain times, and I do it. If I didn't, someone would know instantly.

I sometimes think "my colleagues don't do any work" probably loosely translates as "I don't like my colleagues WFH because I like going over to their desks to bother them, and when they WFH I can't get hold of them instantly".

yes to all of the above

I completely agree with you Op and whilst a lot of people say they are equally of not more so productive working from home, in my experience (working in senior management), that's simply not the case from the organisation's perspective at all. Some form of hybrid solution based on actual job roles is the best way forward in my opinion - not blanket policies across organisations (although appreciate that can be difficult to manage and may lead to claims / feelings of unfair treatment!)

There is also the issue that our value as employees is usually not directly related to the hours we put in. Often the better and more experienced you are at your job, the quicker you do it as well. I know I can do something in half the time some of my team members do. And as long as the work gets done, it doesn't really matter if someone is also spending 10 minutes taking in a delivery or watching the news between 9am-5pm.

People often mention customer service isn't as good but that is just an excuse. The company I work for has had a home-based CS team for years and actually the way it is set up means we can get back to customers within a couple of hours between 8am - 9pm. It wouldn't be possible for us to do that if we had an office-based team working set hours instead.

Reading with intrigue

We are now all being forced to WFH most of the time whether we want to or not. no-one has to work from home. Anyone can rent very cheaply ‘space’ in shared work hubs that are everywhere.

People like myself who cannot work in an office because I have caring responsibilities, now have more choice.

So I don’t have huge sympathy for those who are not either able to WFH or in office hub or wherever, who want to take away my job completely because the company I now work for gave me a job WFH - and it doesn’t suit you!

However on the productivity - I’m surprised that some people are saying there was less WFH.

Most are reporting the opposite.

However if there is less productivity WFH then isn’t that just a failure of management - if people aren’t pulling their weight there are processes to ensure they do.

I think some organisations (and employees) are taking the piss, and for my local council they are still deep in March 2020. The offices are closed, with yellow tape criss-crossing the door and barriers. (Like who wants to break in?!)

There is one email for all departments - you cannot ring. There is a message on the website saying the email will be periodically checked and messages forwarded to the appropriate person. Hmmmph. No, they are not!

Mind you, in normal times dd did work experience there and reported that the staff spent most of their day talking about their dcs and diets. The second they had to do anything they said they were “stressed”. I guess some organisations answer to no one.

@minatrina

Why are the "back to the office" crowd so incensed by the idea of people being able to do what works for best for them?! You go and have your fun in the office, I would prefer to stay at home. What's the problem?! 🤣

Agreed! I wish I hadn’t. Voted YANBU because as I literally only just got a job because it is WFH - but I don’t want it taken away by people who need to get away from family/bought a flat in the city/don’t like it!

Hmm, don't agree.

Our local community is booming, the cafes and restos are packed. I've started a new job during the pandemic, all online, no need to commute on the shitty packed Tube. The kids are happier, me and DH aren't commuting all the time.

Win win for me.

It's been absolutely shit from a customer and client perspective.

You're right too OP that it's bad for the economy - and the environment, because public transport companies can't afford to run without ticket revenue.

Why are the "back to the office" crowd so incensed by the idea of people being able to do what works for best for them?! You go and have your fun in the office, I would prefer to stay at home. What's the problem?!

^

Agreed. It's a leftover attitude from factories in the 1800's that WORK SHOULD BE HARD, PAINFUL AND ARDOUS. If it isn't, you're not working hard enough.

You're right too OP that it's bad for the economy - and the environment, because public transport companies can't afford to run without ticket revenue.

^

So improve the public transport? Or, even better, make it free??

To be honest most of the 'back to the office' crowd on MN don't work in an office or at all.

It's great for our work-life balance. The relationship is thriving.
We have some interesting lunch time fun too.👌
She commutes once a week 4 bloody hrs it takes.

@Pokhora

I agree OP. It is a nightmare getting hold of anyone at our council at the moment. They are all supposedly working from home but never answer their mobiles. My DH now only showers on the days he has to go into the office, he just can't be bothered when he is at home all day.

Same for my council, and many other places too.

Customer service has gone down the toilet.

As for people dismissing the plight of the low waged coffee shop workers. You may not care about the less privileged - people who aren't fortunate enough to have a comfortable WFH job and a spacious home environment suitable for working from, but huge numbers of lower paid workers are facing loss of livelihood.

Office based industries bring in billions to the economy. I guess you might prefer large tax increases instead? I hope your wallet is big because the 1% NI rise is nothing compared to the tax rises required to compensate. (The alternative is complete destruction of public services - nurseries, social care, park and playground maintenance, street lighting, mental health, etc).

It hasn’t been bad for the economy or the environment. It’s been overall good (but of course, some gain, some lose)

This is from a report, it says

• worker productivity increased - and an analysis showed ‘Higher meeting attendance rates, more attentive managers, simplified communication, and more breaks’
• it redistributed opportunities - so that areas with not much work had a fairer chance of work - not all concentrated in the South East / London.
• more likely to hire independent talent and more diverse workforce
• time and money saved on commutes/expensive areas is money that is freed back into the economy boosting economic growth
• pandemic remote work is not the same as remote work - the pandemic saw families having to juggle families, set up ad hoc office spaces - whereas remote work can be hub office/hybrid based, local areas will have ‘hubs’ for work and social needs are more addressed.

Above seems very positive!

So improve the public transport? Or, even better, make it free??

Funded by what? Tax increases?

@Tealightsandd

It's been absolutely shit from a customer and client perspective.

You're right too OP that it's bad for the economy - and the environment, because public transport companies can't afford to run without ticket revenue.

I don't understand why this is supposedly bad for the environment. Many people drove themselves to the office every day, and are no longer doing that. That means a lot less pollution. Public transit generally means less pollution per person than driving in a car, but it's still not zero. If so few people take it that it runs less often, fewer buses running still means less pollution than before. If more people are having coffee and lunch at home rather than going to a coffee shop in the morning and having a meal delivered to the office at lunch, that means much less disposable packaging is ending up in landfills.

I don't really see an environmental downside here. If at some point in the future, more people end up driving themselves places because public transit is no longer available, that increased demand for public transit would justify an expansion of routes. But I think we should assume that public transit demand and availability will eventually reach the same equilibrium they were at pre-covid, so there's not going to be a net increase in miles driven per person.

There isnt the evidence @Tealightsandd that huge numbers of low paid workers are being impacted compared to wealthy people in their offices - or if there is - could you share?
Low paid workers, on the whole, have not had the luxury of being able to WFH being cleaners, hospital workers, shop workers and many may have liked to have not been in the front line!

As for people dismissing the plight of the low waged coffee shop workers. You may not care about the less privileged - people who aren't fortunate enough to have a comfortable WFH job and a spacious home environment suitable for working from, but huge numbers of lower paid workers are facing loss of livelihood.

The low waged coffee shop workers where I used to work might be having their hours cut, it's true. The low waged coffee shop workers nearer my house are having them increased.

People still go for lunch, get their coffee, etc. They're just not doing it in the same place.

worker productivity increased

They obviously didn't check out the companies I've tried to deal with over the past 18 months. Phones go unanswered, emails ignored, people don't call you back, staff seem incapable of transferring you to a colleague or manager.

Incompetence has flourished whilst customer service has nosedived.

@Tealightsandd

worker productivity increased

They obviously didn't check out the companies I've tried to deal with over the past 18 months. Phones go unanswered, emails ignored, people don't call you back, staff seem incapable of transferring you to a colleague or manager.

Incompetence has flourished whilst customer service has nosedived.

Do you understand lots of people in offices don't work in customer service?

This is old but it's still relevant.

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/30/no-return-workers-offices-could-cost-uk-economy-480bn-pounds-cebr

Of course WFH is great for the privileged. Inequality will increase but plenty don't care about that. For people who don't have the luxury of being able to afford a comfortable spacious home working environment, opportunities will be lost.

Many roles will be limited to people with housing privilege.

It's also shit for young people just starting out. Miserable and isolating. WFH is for older affluent workers with large homes and at a settled stage of life. It's crap for others (and for customers/clients).