To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

@lockdownmadnessdotcom But those people with a massive commute chose to do that. That was what they signed up for when they bought their house or started their job. Those who bought small flats near to their workplaces are now effectively being penalised because the situation has turned into one they never signed up for.

And he has a spacious home with an office. I dread to think how crap it is for this stuck in poor housing with distractions. Not sure I want my data in thousands of houses across the country either.

Why are the "back to the office" crowd so incensed by the idea of people being able to do what works for best for them?! You go and have your fun in the office, I would prefer to stay at home. What's the problem?! 🤣

@minatrina

Why are the "back to the office" crowd so incensed by the idea of people being able to do what works for best for them?! You go and have your fun in the office, I would prefer to stay at home. What's the problem?! 🤣

Completely agree

Choice is the best way forward.

I could call you ableist for supporting mass WFH when it's terrible for many people.

I think as many people as want to WFH (and can) should be able to. I don't think anyone should be forced to WFH. But you seem to be suggesting that everyone ought to be going back to the office whether they want to or not, and also saying that parents who find WOHM difficult should jog on and stop whining. If I have that wrong, and you in fact believe that everyone should have the choice, then we agree.

WFH has opened up many opportunities in the job market in my sector.

No longer are we restricted to jobs or candidates who live within commuting distance.

I know several people (me included) who've been able to obtain excellent new jobs that wouldn't have be open geographically before.

@minatrina

Why are the "back to the office" crowd so incensed by the idea of people being able to do what works for best for them?! You go and have your fun in the office, I would prefer to stay at home. What's the problem?! 🤣

I think, it's because if offices aren't as full of people and lots of us are elsewhere, they won't enjoy the office

I don't think some people who want to go back, want it back to exactly how it was before March 2020. Not all but some of them.

But it's not going to be

All perfectly valid points op, I agree with you.

I hate the way work is creeping into home life and society expects instant answers to things.

There may be benefits to some about not commuting but city centres are dying, there's no vibrancy to life without getting out and meeting people. I worry about people s mental and physical health being stuck in one room all day without even walking to the car/train.

I think a happy medium is a mix of the two. Part of the week in a work environment part of it working from home

People cannot work from home forever. It's ridiculous.

The people with whom I work are scattered across different countries and locations. We communicate with a mixture of email, video, teams chat snd phone calls. It honestly makes no difference where I happen to be sitting, when I am engaged in this work.

We have had to manage our teams without relying on seeing how many hours they spend at their desk. We already manage their output, rather than what effort they put in, because that is what matters.

There has always been a lot of emphasis on involving the younger, less experienced members of the team. We do not rely on them 'picking things up' so much as much as more structured 'knowledge harvesting', post implementation reviews and making really good use of people's time.

Picking things up as they go along can work well but can also pass on bad habits.

As it happens, the hybrid model suits me, I'll go in one or two days a week. I'm less productive, but I enjoy having lunch with different people, catching up over coffee etc. and generally being with people.

Hybrid is all good for me.

@Scr1bblyGum

My husband is stuck in doors 9-5 seeing nobody. It’s shit and having a real impact on mental health.

Me too. I'm pretty much reaching at breaking point. Been looking for other work but I'm at an age where its really hard to get anyone to give me an interview for jobs I have excellent experience and qualifications for - jobs I would have easily got an interview for 10-15 years ago.

WFH has many benefits. I’m now a mix of in office and WFH.

For me public transport is vital as I am partially sighted. If there is no bus or train I can’t just hop in the car to go to the city. I chose to live in a city to deal with that but then got a job in a town. Transport here is already a bit worse. If there is even worse transport my life will get smaller.

I do also think that the coffee shop jobs are an issue. It may be healthy that we eat at home and that there are cafes locally. However there may not be as many jobs. The chains must have some appeal as there used to be more independent coffee/tea/sandwich shops. It may have been just price but I doubt it and I expect that Pret and Costas are looking at ways to move to local areas.

You're right that it impacts public transit and local businesses. But I've always made employment decisions based on what's better for myself and my family, not based on what's better for tangentially-related local service industries or their workers. I think that's true of most people, and I don't see why it should be different when we're talking about WFH. It's not my or anyone else's responsibility to prop up those industries. If decreased demand for public transit results in service cuts, then those tax dollars can either be spent on things more people actually want, or they can be returned to the people in the form of reduced taxes.

Turning family homes into workplaces definitely does have consequences, but whether those are good or bad depends on each individual situation. If two adults are trying to work from home in two different jobs in a 2-bedroom flat they share with their two young children who are home all day, yeah, they're not going to be very productive. But if someone has a spare bedroom that they've turned into a dedicated office, and either doesn't have children or has arranged proper childcare, they can be more productive than they would have been in the office. That's my situation, and my husband and I both love being able to eat lunch together.

As for exercise and whatnot, eliminating a commute leaves me with an extra 1-2 hours per day, and I often use that time for real exercise. I can multi-task and do things like laundry or cleaning while on work calls, which saves even more time. An hour-long run around the neighborhood is much more beneficial than an occasional stroll from my office down the hall to the water cooler. Plus, I can set up my home office however I like, so I can use things like standing desks, or rig up a sort of treadmill desk or stationary bike desk.

On that note, though, I think that if the job requires working from home, and therefore effectively requires the existence and full-time use of a spare room, the employer should pay the equivalent of fair market rent for that space, just as they'd have paid rent for a proper office. It should be factored into the employee's salary. For example, if the job would ordinarily pay enough for a single employee to have a one-bedroom, but it requires frequent remote work, the employee's salary should be increased by the cost of an extra bedroom. But if WFH is optional, and the employee could choose to go to the office 5 days a week if they wanted, I don't think that's necessary.

I agree, everything is sloppy and I see it in my own workplace. Colleagues not responding to requests, never online, inexplicably absent. There is a general air of malaise and at the start of the pandemic I said that organisations would be spending a fortune (and time) on tribunals trying to get people back into the office or even to do their normal workload.

@Rozziie it’s perplexing you’re banging the drum for office work when it’s quite obvious you don’t like people much. What do you hope to get out of it?

But I've always made employment decisions based on what's better for myself and my family

But you chose a 2 hour daily commute? I have had barely any time freed up as a result of working from home because I’ve always made employment decisions based on what’s better for myself and my family and that didn’t involve choosing a long commute.

The issue was a big unexpected switch to lots of people suddenly wfh. Any fast change makes it hard to adapt as a business.

Coffee shop footfall is moving to local high streets eg Pret is expanding its offer outside of central London as they saw much more traffic in other locations.
However I said at the beginning passenger numbers being down would impact the cost of public transport & the service.

I think I've being just as productive at home vs the office but personally I like the hybrid model.

How do people actually get away with not doing any work when at home? I don't understand.

Although I agree that wfh with a separate space for an office/desk is very different to a cramped flat share.

I've found pluses and minuses but on the whole I love WFH. Went for a lunchtime walk around the village, I'd have never done that at the office. Get my home chores done at breaks leaving my weekends free.
No rushing about in the morning or the dread of facing hometime commute.
There's talk of getting an office again but it is to be loads more flexible.

How do people actually get away with not doing any work when at home?

I always wonder this when these threads come up and people are insistent their colleagues are lazy feckers who do no work. I can only assume they have shit managers.

@RobinPenguins

But I've always made employment decisions based on what's better for myself and my family

But you chose a 2 hour daily commute? I have had barely any time freed up as a result of working from home because I’ve always made employment decisions based on what’s better for myself and my family and that didn’t involve choosing a long commute.

My commute is about 1 hour total (30 minutes each way) most days, but it depends on traffic and other conditions. In my particular situation, living outside of a major city while working at a well-paying job in said major city is what's best for both myself and my husband. I have colleagues who prefer to live in smaller apartments (or to pay a lot more for a house-sized space) closer to the office, and that's fine for them if it's what makes them happy. But I doubt things like job creation for coffee shops or preserving the public transit infrastructure entered their minds when they made those decisions, and they shouldn't have. If WFH is somehow costing you time, that would be a good reason to choose not to do it. The possible cancellation of bus routes wouldn't be.

Surely anything that reduces travel CO2 emissions and pressure on London housing market can't be bad.
My organisation is trying to encourage people back into the office voluntarily and take up is very very low. Yes WFH doesn't suit everyone but the evidence at my workplace is the majority prefer it.
I've not seen any productivity problems in my team.
Coffee shops in my local high street are doing very well from all the WFHers, trade has moved location but not disappeared.

@Thesandmanishere

How do people actually get away with not doing any work when at home?

I always wonder this when these threads come up and people are insistent their colleagues are lazy feckers who do no work. I can only assume they have shit managers.

I've wondered that, too. If the only mechanism in place for checking whether someone was doing anything was the manager occasionally sneaking up behind them to look at their screen, I don't think people not doing any work is really a new problem.

I always wonder this when these threads come up and people are insistent their colleagues are lazy feckers who do no work. I can only assume they have shit managers.

Exactly, don't they have deadlines & stuff to actually do. Surely a manager is waiting for the stuff they produce.

It would be immediately noticed if I wasn't doing any work.