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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

999 replies

HurryUpAndWait23 · 15/09/2021 14:21

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

OP posts:
Comedycook · 17/09/2021 11:17

To me, she comes across as ... how to put it? Not the sharpest

I thought the same

SailYourShips · 17/09/2021 11:22

Have you looked at the official Bangladesh citizenship page @vivainsomnia?

She doesn't need to have st foot there. It's enough that at least one parent comes from there to have citizenship.

You know, a little bit like Ireland...at least one Irish parent and you are a citizen of Ireland, whether you've never been there, don't know where it is or can't spell it.

They don't want her though.

Do you think that might be racism or common sense on their part?

vivainsomnia · 17/09/2021 11:26

Have you looked at the official Bangladesh citizenship page @vivainsomnia*?

She doesn't need to have st foot there. It's enough that at least one parent comes from there to have citizenship*
I know that. My post was in response to.tgeposter comparing her with the people she knew who had to come back to the UK. What she describes is not comparable in any way with her situation.

vivainsomnia · 17/09/2021 11:28

They don't want her though
She hasn't applied!

Whether they want her or not is irrelevant. She was British in every way it means to be British.

Washeduponthebeach · 17/09/2021 11:31

@Comedycook

To me, she comes across as ... how to put it? Not the sharpest

I thought the same

I heard someone talk about her a few years ago when she was first in the camp. He knows the family in a supportive context and said she wasn’t very bright. Not in those words, but that was the meaning. We’ve heard the girls were high achievers in school, but I wonder what the evidence for that is. To me she seems like someone who has a low IQ.
habibibibi · 17/09/2021 11:35

@SailYourShips

Have you looked at the official Bangladesh citizenship page *@vivainsomnia*?

She doesn't need to have st foot there. It's enough that at least one parent comes from there to have citizenship.

You know, a little bit like Ireland...at least one Irish parent and you are a citizen of Ireland, whether you've never been there, don't know where it is or can't spell it.

They don't want her though.

Do you think that might be racism or common sense on their part?

You're automatically entitled to citizenship under jus sanguis laws. Doesn't mean you HOLD that citizenship. You still need to take steps for that to happen. Being stateless means you are not recognised as a citizen by any state. Bangladesh does not recognise her as a citizen.

I'm a dual national to a country with jus sanguis nationality laws due to my parents' natioanlity. I am automatically ENTITLED to citizenship and my parents took me to register my birth at their country's embassy so that I can receive that citizenship. This did not happen with SB. She was not a Bangladeshi citizen or dual national.

They don't want her because they don't want to have to deal with problems of the UK's making. I don't see why they should to be honest.

habibibibi · 17/09/2021 11:36

@vivainsomnia

Yes but Bangladesh has also stated she wasn't a citizen and they won't recognize her as a citizen

LoislovesStewie · 17/09/2021 11:39

[quote vivainsomnia]@LoislovesStewie, you keep saying back. There was and is still no 'back' in her case. She was never a Bangladesh citizen, never set foot there. She doesn't have a passport.[/quote]
No I have not said she could go back, I am merely pointing out that the UK is not the big bad wolf that is being touted. Lots of countries try or succeed in deporting criminals or others deemed a risk. We aren't the only one to try to rid itself of such a person There are countless people who are denied entry to various countries including famous people who are considered disreputable. The UK is not alone in trying to move a problem elsewhere whether people like it or not.
FWIW, she made choices and I think she has to live with the results of those choices as we all do.

vivainsomnia · 17/09/2021 11:45

Yes but Bangladesh has also stated she wasn't a citizen and they won't recognize her as a citizen
It's the same as the UK. Some people are entitled to be British Citizen by default but won't be deemed to be so until the person applies to become one. They won't get a British passport until they do.

I don't see why they should to be honest
Absolutely. One of the conditions in the above example to become British is not to have been involved in terrorism! Maybe it's the same for Bangladeshi citizenship.

KittenKong · 17/09/2021 11:45

[quote habibibibi]@vivainsomnia

Yes but Bangladesh has also stated she wasn't a citizen and they won't recognize her as a citizen[/quote]
Doesn’t Bangladesh have the death penalty for joining terror groups?

vivainsomnia · 17/09/2021 11:47

The UK is not alone in trying to move a problem elsewhere whether people like it or not
So it makes it ok? Even though they knew that in all likelihood, despite her parentage allowing her to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship, they knew it would be denied, so yes, they made her stateless knowing that was the case.

habibibibi · 17/09/2021 11:47

@LoislovesStewie

You are conflating deporting convicted non-national criminals after due process and denial of entry to a country to non-nationals (again with due process) to stripping a national of her citizenship and rendering her stateless . Totally different.

habibibibi · 17/09/2021 11:51

It's also quite outraegous that even dual nationals, when their strongest ties are to the UK and very weak ties to the other country, can be unilaterally stripped of their nationality with no consideration of the needs or desires of the other country, especially if it is an ally of ours. Like Canada. Like Bangladesh.

Cadent · 17/09/2021 11:56

Doesn’t Bangladesh have the death penalty for joining terror groups?

Yep the government was interviewed by BBC/SkyNews and asked what would happen if she arrives there and the answer was she would be executed.

GladAllOver · 17/09/2021 12:01

Yes but Bangladesh has also stated she wasn't a citizen and they won't recognize her as a citizen.
They stated that, but that doesn't make it true.
It was established that she is entitled to Bangladesh citizenship under family connections.

Cadent · 17/09/2021 12:02

@GladAllOver are you saying that you don’t believe Bangladesh m’s government when they say is not entitled to citizenship there abs will not be allowed to live there?

SailYourShips · 17/09/2021 12:03

No-one wants her. No country has said anything in her defence or offered her succour of any sort.

She is very lucky that she is on Syrian soil but I guess they don't want her either.

No-one wants her. She's not the first and hopefully, she won't be the last. I'd like to see it used a lot more.

Being stripped of a state is a great punishment because it does actually punish and may also act as a deterrent to any other evil numb nuts who thinks they will do the same as her.

She is a dreadful murderous creature and anyone who thinks that she would be saying any of this if her gang hadn't lost is foolish and gullible.

habibibibi · 17/09/2021 12:05

@GladAllOver

Yes but Bangladesh has also stated she wasn't a citizen and they won't recognize her as a citizen. They stated that, but that doesn't make it true. It was established that she is entitled to Bangladesh citizenship under family connections.
Entitlement is different to holding. She does not HOLD Bangladeshi citizenship. If you have a nationality, you do not have to claim an additional one and she never claimed that entitlement.
LoislovesStewie · 17/09/2021 12:06

[quote habibibibi]@LoislovesStewie

You are conflating deporting convicted non-national criminals after due process and denial of entry to a country to non-nationals (again with due process) to stripping a national of her citizenship and rendering her stateless . Totally different.[/quote]
So; do you think that someone who has lived in e.g. Australia since they were a baby but never took Australian nationality, and committed a very serious offence in Australia should be deported back to the UK when they have no ties to the UK?

habibibibi · 17/09/2021 12:06

@SailYourShips

No-one wants her. No country has said anything in her defence or offered her succour of any sort.

She is very lucky that she is on Syrian soil but I guess they don't want her either.

No-one wants her. She's not the first and hopefully, she won't be the last. I'd like to see it used a lot more.

Being stripped of a state is a great punishment because it does actually punish and may also act as a deterrent to any other evil numb nuts who thinks they will do the same as her.

She is a dreadful murderous creature and anyone who thinks that she would be saying any of this if her gang hadn't lost is foolish and gullible.

@SailYourShips So you think people should just be made stateless when they commit crimes? Regardless of international law.
habibibibi · 17/09/2021 12:08

@LoislovesStewie

I think it's a very different situation than actually stripping a national of their citizenship, especially when that citizenship was acquired at birth. Completely different

GladAllOver · 17/09/2021 12:09

GladAllOver are you saying that you don’t believe Bangladesh m’s government when they say is not entitled to citizenship there abs will not be allowed to live there
Are you saying you do believe them and don't believe the British government lawyers who have examined the case? Bangladesh have good reason not to want her, just as we have.

Tyrantosaurus · 17/09/2021 12:10

@vivainsomnia

I cannot work her out Of course you can't. I don't expect you've experience half the life she's had so far!

That's what we're calling it now?Confused

SailYourShips · 17/09/2021 12:11

It's not illegal to strip someone of their citizenship, you know.

Cadent · 17/09/2021 12:11

@GladAllOver

GladAllOver are you saying that you don’t believe Bangladesh m’s government when they say is not entitled to citizenship there abs will not be allowed to live there Are you saying you do believe them and don't believe the British government lawyers who have examined the case? Bangladesh have good reason not to want her, just as we have.
Yes of course I believe the Bangladeshi government Confused

Why would you believe the British government over the Bangladeshi government over BANGLADESHI rules?

Is this some weird colonial entitlement, where you thing the British know Bangladesh’s policies better than them?