AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

[HurryUpAndWait23]

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

@Proudboomer
I'm certainly not saying she should be absolved of her sins. She most certainly should face justice for the crimes she committed.

But the idea of western governments working hand in hand with the Syrian regime for them to set up some kind of war trials is totally ridiculous and shows a total lack of understanding of what's been going on in Syria for the last decade.

She seems completely emotionless in that interview, she's borne three children, all of whom are dead. Her appearance in Western clothes is at complete odds with wanting to live life as a Muslim family.

She was a young girl at 15 but she's no longer that girl which is why I have concerns about the risk she poses. I don't want her or what she represents in the UK

"She seems completely emotionless in that interview, she's borne three children, all of whom are dead"

Well possibly losing three children might make some people emotionally shut down

I am not totally convinced about the children and how many there were. All three dying very early on? I suspect the parents had an inkling but because they had SOME sympathy they just turned a blind eye.

What?

@habibibibi

I just don't understand how anyone, regardless if they think that SB is a hardened dangerous terrorist or an innocent and exploited child victim, can think that it is not Britain's responsibility to deal with her.

How can we possibly expect Bangladesh to take her? She has never held Bangladeshi citizenship, she has never visited that country. She was born IN BRITAIN, she was educated IN BRITAIN, she was radicalised IN BRITAIN. She is entirely a product of British making. Bangladesh has had nothing to do with it.

It would be bad enough if she were a dual national. In any case, Bangladesh has stated that no way are they giving her citizenship (whcih she would need to apply for). So she is stateless and it is illegal to make someone stateless.

She has done wrong, no doubt. But there are major questions over what she did and the degree of her culpability. These are questions to be determined in a court of law. Every criminal, no matter how heinous their crimes, is entitled to their day in court. That is where her fate shold be decided. Not by a politician playing to the mob braying for her blood.

I agree entirely.

@LimitIsUp

"She seems completely emotionless in that interview, she's borne three children, all of whom are dead"

Well possibly losing three children might make some people emotionally shut down

She does talk very matter of factly about it all. Hence why I struggled to work out if she's an absolute psychopath or suffering from PTSD

i can't help thinking she is getting a lot of support on here because she is a non white woman.
she is not a young girl, she is a grown woman.

I feel so bad for saying this , but I don’t believe her , her husband doesn’t believe her either and thinks it’s all a bluff .
And what’s this sudden transformation in her appearance ? she never dresses like that not even back in the U.K. Will she waltz back into her conservative parents home in in tank top and wavy hair ?

She has a slight American accent and I suspect she is copying some of her camp mates , many of whom are apparently American. She way she comes across is very strange. I would be interested to hear a psychological assessment of her based on her body language and her lack of emotion.

It would be extremely dangerous and stupid to have her back. A terrorist who wants to overthrow the country now wants direct access to that country...and we should give it to her in the name of political correctness? I personally don't want myself or my friends/family to be victims of a terrorist attack so think it's best for known terrorists not to be here.

@georgarina

It would be extremely dangerous and stupid to have her back. A terrorist who wants to overthrow the country now wants direct access to that country...and we should give it to her in the name of political correctness? I personally don't want myself or my friends/family to be victims of a terrorist attack so think it's best for known terrorists not to be here.

Yup.

By the way, Canada was pretty pissed off with Britain for palming Jack Letts off on to them as he was a Canadian-British dual national. But he was, again, born and bred in Britain with a Canadian father. Why the heck does Britain think it has the right to force other countries to accept the problems it created? Imagine if the foot were on the other shoe and the outrage if Bangladesh and Canada did something similar with people who had been born and brought up in those countries wiht only a tenuous link to the UK through UK born parents. Disgraceful.

@Samcro

i can't help thinking she is getting a lot of support on here because she is a non white woman. she is not a young girl, she is a grown woman.

Because people who aren't white have such an advantage? Come on now. The opposite is true.

I would be interested to hear a psychological assessment of her based on her body language and her lack of emotion

Me too. She speaks about the death of her children in a very detached way. She also sounds like a typical, entitled, petulant teenager when she speaks and tries to explain her behaviour...like she's explaining why she bunked off school or something. It's really weird. I cannot work her out.

About the citizenship thing. Is it a case that Bangladesh were 'it' when the UK withdrew British citizenship from SB? That as she may be a citizen by descent, they were the ones holding the parcel when the music stopped. So, would they be the ones breaking international law if they barred her from that entitlement. I understand it is stated that she has not applied for citizenship, or that she has never visited the country. Neither of those mean she is not entitled to be a Bangladeshi citizen by descent, though.

Bangladeshi politicians could be playing to their national gallery by stating she is not entitled to their citizenship, as much as Sajid Javid may be playing to his national gallery.

It would be interesting to know what the facts are.

@Comedycook

I would be interested to hear a psychological assessment of her based on her body language and her lack of emotion

Me too. She speaks about the death of her children in a very detached way. She also sounds like a typical, entitled, petulant teenager when she speaks and tries to explain her behaviour...like she's explaining why she bunked off school or something. It's really weird. I cannot work her out.

But there are other reasons for people to appear detached than having anti social personality disorder.

I have no idea if she has or hasn't but I'm just saying.

@habibibibi

By the way, Canada was pretty pissed off with Britain for palming Jack Letts off on to them as he was a Canadian-British dual national. But he was, again, born and bred in Britain with a Canadian father. Why the heck does Britain think it has the right to force other countries to accept the problems it created? Imagine if the foot were on the other shoe and the outrage if Bangladesh and Canada did something similar with people who had been born and brought up in those countries wiht only a tenuous link to the UK through UK born parents. Disgraceful.

It might surprise you to know that people who have British passports are sent back to the UK having lived in other countries for the whole of their lives or the vast majority of their lives. I know because I have met them professionally. If they have a UK passport and only residence permits for another country and have committed certain crimes then it's back to the UK with them and there is nothing the UK government can do. They might have UK born parents but have never really lived in the UK themselves.

I cannot work her out
Of course you can't. I don't expect you've experience half the life she's had so far!

@Cailleach1

About the citizenship thing. Is it a case that Bangladesh were 'it' when the UK withdrew British citizenship from SB? That as she may be a citizen by descent, they were the ones holding the parcel when the music stopped. So, would they be the ones breaking international law if they barred her from that entitlement. I understand it is stated that she has not applied for citizenship, or that she has never visited the country. Neither of those mean she is not entitled to be a Bangladeshi citizen by descent, though.

Bangladeshi politicians could be playing to their national gallery by stating she is not entitled to their citizenship, as much as Sajid Javid may be playing to his national gallery.

It would be interesting to know what the facts are.

@Cailleach1

There's a difference between being entitled to citizenship and actually holding that citizenship.

And there's a big difference between stripping someone of citizenship and rendering them stateless and not granting someone who is stateless citizenship. One is illegal and the other is not.

But even if she DID have Bangladeshi citizenship, her ties to Bangladesh are tenuous. It's like Jack Letts and Canada (even though he really was a dual citizen due to his father being Canadian). Why does Britain think it has the right to insist other countries deal with the problems it created? And it seems quite unfair. If one of your parents is an immigrant then too bad, so sad, you get a lifetime banishment as opposed to someone with non-immigrant parents. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of an objective justice system when your punishment as a British citizen depends on where your parents were born!

@LoislovesStewie

Yes, I know that. Most countries deport non-citizens if they have committed serious crimes following the end of their sentence. And you do end up with some very tragic stories as a result. However, those criminals will at least have had their day in court and due process prior to their conviction and deportation. That has been denied to SB.

Further, countries do not routinely strip dual nationals of their nationality, even those convicted of serious crimes as adults, and certainly not when they do even hold the nationality of another country but could be eligible to apply.

Totally different.

there are other reasons for people to appear detached than having anti social personality disorder

Yeah that was my point.

It is relevant. Is she a dangerous psychopath? Or is she a traumatised girl who was a victim of grooming?

@LoislovesStewie, you keep saying back. There was and is still no 'back' in her case. She was never a Bangladesh citizen, never set foot there. She doesn't have a passport.

To me, she comes across as ... how to put it? Not the sharpest. I can see how she was kind of easy pickings for mind-washing extremists. Vulnerable, not too savy.

She was a teenager when she was groomed. It's a key point for development of the brain, specifically relating to decision-making, assessment of risk and responsibility and emotional regulation. I'd be surprised if she wasn't massively psychologically damaged. She will need extensive psychological rehabilitation before she can even start to come to terms with what she has done and what has happened.

I still think that she was groomed in Britain... While a pupil in a British school, the child of a British family, no doubt registered with a British GP, attending a British mosque. She made exceptionally poor decisions, but nonetheless, every agency which might have noticed something failed to do so and intervene.

So, there are also lessons to be learned in the UK and I don't feel it's right that UK agencies simply pass the buck.