AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

[HurryUpAndWait23]

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

The truth is this,

every monster

you have ever met or will meet,

was once a human being with a soul

that was as soft as silk.

Someone stole that silk from

their soul and turned them into this.

So when you see a monster next,

always remember this.

Do not fear the thing before you,

fear the thing that created it instead.

Nikita Gill

[quote YourFinestPantaloons]@Itsmeagainandagain we ARE accepting of Venables and Thompson though - they live in the country, have lifelong anonymity and can live as free as they like.[/quote]
Which is what will happen to her, and yes there are some sticking up for her, shes a dangerous woman and shouldnt step foot inside OUR country. Shes not welcome as they say sleep with dogs get fleas and shes one fleabag.

She was born here, its her country too. We should take responsibility.

My impressions from her interviews

She does not regret her actions
She believes we deserve what we got
Manchester was "justified"
If they had succeeded she wouldn't want to come back
She is being groomed as being more western to appeal to us
She will be coming back
She won't be facing charges
They will do a token "investigation" which will be dropped due to "lack of evidence"

She just feels like an obvious risk to me but I'm wondering what she is distracting us from what more is going on over there that is so interesting they need such a distraction

That’s a very good point @Theunamedcat. Certainly if things had gone the other way for Isis, she’d have revelling in her status and returning to the UK would be the last thing she’d want. She didn’t bother to deny it when the “Queen Bee” point was put to her.

I don’t think she will be coming back any time soon though, certainly not while this government’s in power.

What we should be doing along with all western nations is helping the Syrian government set up legitimate war trials for all foreigners left behind by isis.
The crimes were committed against the Syrian people where they be Christian Syrians, yazidi Syrians or just the wrong branch of Islam Syrians.
Help these people find the justice they are entitled to. Let the Syrian government decide their punishment.

Excellent point @Proudboomer. It’s the only way justice can be done.

@Proudboomer

What we should be doing along with all western nations is helping the Syrian government set up legitimate war trials for all foreigners left behind by isis. The crimes were committed against the Syrian people where they be Christian Syrians, yazidi Syrians or just the wrong branch of Islam Syrians. Help these people find the justice they are entitled to. Let the Syrian government decide their punishment.

Are you seriously saying we should help the Bashar regime set up war trials for OTHERS? WTAF? Do you know the crimes committed against the Syrian people BY the Syrian government?! ISIS is awful but the Syrian regime have no less innocent blood on their hands. FFS.

She was not stateless when her British passport was revoked and the courts so far have supported the majority of the British public in the Government that it was lawful to remove the British one. It seems to be becoming a tactic of some states to try to remove the second citizenship right when the UK withdraws the British passport. That man with the UK and Pakistani passport who has spent ten years in the UK fighting against begin returned to Pakistan (since he came out of prison for child rape) and one of his fellow rapists - both of them had British passports revoked but Pakistan then issued letters or something saying hey could not go there. Too late (although he is still here fighting it) because the UK revoked the British passport first. It is a privilege to live here. If you have two passports or two citizenship rights and you commit crimes then you may well lose the right to be here.

@Blossomtoes

Excellent point *@Proudboomer*. It’s the only way justice can be done.

@Blossomtoes Justice from the Syrian Govt?! Sure, let's work with those who gassed their own citizens with sarin, chlorine and mustard gas, barrel bombed civilians, targeted schools and hospitals, tortured and executed detainees. What on earth are you thinking?!

@Xenia

She was not stateless when her British passport was revoked and the courts so far have supported the majority of the British public in the Government that it was lawful to remove the British one. It seems to be becoming a tactic of some states to try to remove the second citizenship right when the UK withdraws the British passport. That man with the UK and Pakistani passport who has spent ten years in the UK fighting against begin returned to Pakistan (since he came out of prison for child rape) and one of his fellow rapists - both of them had British passports revoked but Pakistan then issued letters or something saying hey could not go there. Too late (although he is still here fighting it) because the UK revoked the British passport first. It is a privilege to live here. If you have two passports or two citizenship rights and you commit crimes then you may well lose the right to be here.

Yes, she was rendered stateless. Anyway, ethically and morally, why should Bangladesh take her? Why is she their problem?? It's not like she was a naturalised British citizen, she is British born and bred. She has never held a Bangladeshi passport or applied for Bangladeshi ctizienship. All her ties are to the UK. She is British and a British grown problem to deal with.

What on earth are you thinking?!

I’m thinking you didn’t read Proudboomer’s post properly. And wondering why it’s me you’re taking issue with and not her.

@Blossomtoes

Both of you. I'm in total shock that anyone could think that the Syrian government is capable of any kind of justice. Why not ask North Korea to hold the trials?

Because Isis didn’t commit their atrocities in North Korea. Have you read what that regime did? The atrocities it committed? In which Begum is entirely complicit.

YABU I don't think she comes across badly. And she was a child.

Can you imagine some of the sheer horrors that she has seen and lived? I should well imagine she's suffering PTSD.

@Proudboomer

What we should be doing along with all western nations is helping the Syrian government set up legitimate war trials for all foreigners left behind by isis. The crimes were committed against the Syrian people where they be Christian Syrians, yazidi Syrians or just the wrong branch of Islam Syrians. Help these people find the justice they are entitled to. Let the Syrian government decide their punishment.

This is such bullshit. The country is in a state of desperate despair, and you want to set up war trials. Pathetic.

You and others have blinkers on and live in la la land.

I haven’t read all the thread so maybe her children have been mentioned already. She’s just so cold about them I can’t believe she feels anything normally.
In the documentary life after IS she seemed sad detailing the DC deaths and the friends who left with her.
She talked about missing her DM too.
Like a minority I think her response around the Manchester bombing was a harsh front, she was still living in the camp in Syria.
I think it is a fair point to say, why would Isis want a 15 year old without the language in charge.

@Blossomtoes

Because Isis didn’t commit their atrocities in North Korea. Have you read what that regime did? The atrocities it committed? In which Begum is entirely complicit.

@Blossomtoes

Because the Syrian Government is just as capable of holding a fair trial as the North Korean Government is.

I know perfectly well the atrocities of ISIL. Which are equally matched - or even exceeded (if this is a macabre contest - by the atrocities of the Syrian Government.

Read this reliefweb.int/report/syrian-arab-republic/decade-atrocities-and-international-failure-syria

The Syrian government may have been fighting ISIL and may have been the target of ISIL. It doesn't make them good, they are just as bad.

She voluntarily went to Syria so she she now comes under their jurisdiction for any crimes she committed there. The fact that the syrian government has also committed war crimes is a separate issue. She doesn’t get absolved of her sins just because others also committed war crimes.
I wouldn’t lose any sleep if the Syrian government wanted to sentence her and any other isis radical to death as her death is better than her or someone else she might radicalise blowing themselves up in a train, theatre or shopping centre near me and mine.
Don’t give a shit if that makes me heartless or a monster in the eyes of some bleeding heart . She and her ilk wouldn’t lose any sleep about throwing my gay friend off a building or cutting the heads off of my sons if they wouldn’t convert to their sick version of Islam.

I’m quite torn on this one. As a teacher part of me thinks about the 15 year olds I have taught in the past who have made wrong choices (crime / gangs) who have turned their life around due to someone giving them a chance …

The other part of me thinks she is a real risk to safety. She talks about ‘your country’ in her interview, blatantly lies about not being aware of the Manchester attack (when she referenced it in earlier interviews). She said the camp she was in is safer, but is it really safe enough that she can happily wear a vest top and make up etc and talk about helping the uk with isis? I think that this is all part of a media / PR exercise to make her look more western.

I found her interview quite hard to watch. She isn’t repentant and came across as quite emotionless. I’d also really like to know what a body language expert would make of it. Is she traumatised or just emotionless? It’s hard to tell.

I just think of the London Bridge attacker who went through extensive rehabilitation and de-radicalisation programs and all along was just waiting for an opportunity to kill people.

I think whilst there is a risk that she is a threat to security it is right she should not be allowed back in the uk. It’s ok to say let the justice system deal with her, but we hardly have robust prison sentences in the uk or good prisoner reform statistics. The system is pretty broken.

It is also important for others to know if they make the decision to leave the uk to join a terrorist organisation, they won’t be allowed back.

I just think that people are using SB as a figure head to direct their horror about ISIS at when she's a victim of their grooming. Of course she's made bad decisions but at 15 you don't think like an adult.

You want to work out what side of the fence you’re on before you start with your insults..,,.

Insults?

You're the one calling people 'divvies' and 'weirdos'. 😂

This thread has clearly got to you. Can I suggest you go and have a cup of horlicks and a nice hot bath. Try and forget about the nasty people on this thread making you look silly.

Thankfully I'm on the other side of the fence from Shamima. 🙌

@Apple1971

I’m quite torn on this one. As a teacher part of me thinks about the 15 year olds I have taught in the past who have made wrong choices (crime / gangs) who have turned their life around due to someone giving them a chance …

The other part of me thinks she is a real risk to safety. She talks about ‘your country’ in her interview, blatantly lies about not being aware of the Manchester attack (when she referenced it in earlier interviews). She said the camp she was in is safer, but is it really safe enough that she can happily wear a vest top and make up etc and talk about helping the uk with isis? I think that this is all part of a media / PR exercise to make her look more western.

I found her interview quite hard to watch. She isn’t repentant and came across as quite emotionless. I’d also really like to know what a body language expert would make of it. Is she traumatised or just emotionless? It’s hard to tell.

I just think of the London Bridge attacker who went through extensive rehabilitation and de-radicalisation programs and all along was just waiting for an opportunity to kill people.

I think whilst there is a risk that she is a threat to security it is right she should not be allowed back in the uk. It’s ok to say let the justice system deal with her, but we hardly have robust prison sentences in the uk or good prisoner reform statistics. The system is pretty broken.

It is also important for others to know if they make the decision to leave the uk to join a terrorist organisation, they won’t be allowed back.

Absolutely agree with this. Yes.

If she comes back - she will need to have a ‘new identity’ and will be subject to much curiosity (not to mention people trying to contact her as a ‘kindred spirit’).

Reminds me of when I was a child and I caught a bumble bee in a jam jar (to show my mum). It got really angry (well it was buzzing like mad) and I was too scared to release it in case it came after me. I was torn - keep it in captivity or release it (and get stung)? Wished I’d never got in that position but there I was. (Dad saved the day in the end and released the new).