AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

[HurryUpAndWait23]

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

@JudgeJ I have always wondered if there was an attempt to look at Begum grooming the two young people who went to Syria with her? As in she was the 'handler' as I am sure I read those two YP's are back in the UK. But maybe the CPS balked at charging a victim of grooming and argued that she was groomed to groom?

There is a lot more to this than we get to know I guess but I have always wondered if her initial communications before she left the UK have bern looked at and this has impacted on the decision making. Just thinking out loud. Used to work in CSE so it interests me around criminal responsibility.

I haven’t read all the thread so maybe her children have been mentioned already. She’s just so cold about them I can’t believe she feels anything normally. She must be so incredibly damaged.

[quote SafeMove]@JudgeJ I have always wondered if there was an attempt to look at Begum grooming the two young people who went to Syria with her? As in she was the 'handler' as I am sure I read those two YP's are back in the UK. But maybe the CPS balked at charging a victim of grooming and argued that she was groomed to groom?

There is a lot more to this than we get to know I guess but I have always wondered if her initial communications before she left the UK have bern looked at and this has impacted on the decision making. Just thinking out loud. Used to work in CSE so it interests me around criminal responsibility.[/quote]
I thought the other two girls were dead?

I think they want to make an example of her, to give a zero tolerance message out. The UK has been seen as a bit of a soft touch for a place to radicalise people. They are sending out a message this isn't the case, this is what could happen.

I think they are right to stand the hard group. Humans rights of the criminal seem to trump the human rights of the victims time and time again. She has committed terrible crimes she should not be allowed back in our country as she is dangerous.

NRTFT but why shouldn't she have a 'the world owes me' attitude?

She was systematically let down by her family, school and community. The very humans who should have protected her. "The world" that owes her - it IS these humans!

We have GOT to stop feeling uncomfortable about women who refuse to be meek, who refuse to be sorry for the abuse they suffered and who stand up unashamedly for what is rightfully theirs.

Shamima Begum was a victim of child exploitation, sexual abuse and radicalisation. Now imagine she's white, and maybe re-think your position

I think they want to make an example of her, to give a zero tolerance message out. The UK has been seen as a bit of a soft touch for a place to radicalise people. They are sending out a message this isn't the case, this is what could happen

Yet when it's a radicalised man brainwashed by misogynists and incels, wielding a gun and actually shooting people including a toddler, the government can't seem to find their 'zero tolerance' approach to radicalism. Funny that. In fact they actually deny it, calling it a 'domestic that spilled out onto the streets'

@Washeduponthebeach are they? Oh wow. Thought I had heard her argue that they had been allowed to return. Must have got my wires crossed. Time for bed for me!

Shamima Begum was a victim of child exploitation, sexual abuse and radicalisation. Now imagine she's white, and maybe re-think your position

Yes, it's quite obvious you haven't read the thread 🙄

But thanks for these absolutely stunning observations that haven't been said tens of time already We don't have to 'imagine' she's white, there's already several examples that have been mentioned at least 20 times, including Jack Letts who was a white man.

Sajid Javid lying that she is entitled to nationality there and his implications that he knows a lot is just his attempt to curry favour with the Brexit-voting, UKIP/ right wing factor.

So according to that, knowing about or even discussing a country's nationality rules would equate to a Brexit voting, UKIP/right wing factor. Is ignorance is good then? Do all those British citizens who looked up their entitlement to citizenship of an EU country, by descent or otherwise, (and applied for it after Brexit) know that they are right wing for doing it.

Maybe there is a court judgement that outlines what the reasoning was. Then that would take SJ out of the equation. We are really none the wiser about whether SB has an entitlement to Bangladeshi citizenship or not. I know it appears to be separate from the other things, but isn't this what the stripping of SB's British nationality depended on.

@YourFinestPantaloons

NRTFT but why shouldn't she have a 'the world owes me' attitude?

She was systematically let down by her family, school and community. The very humans who should have protected her. "The world" that owes her - it IS these humans!

We have GOT to stop feeling uncomfortable about women who refuse to be meek, who refuse to be sorry for the abuse they suffered and who stand up unashamedly for what is rightfully theirs.

Shamima Begum was a victim of child exploitation, sexual abuse and radicalisation. Now imagine she's white, and maybe re-think your position

Yes, because only white people hate terrorists. After all, it was white people being maimed, tortured slaughtered in unimaginable ways in Syria.

She may have been groomed, that's debatable. She's no victim now, and nobody owes her anything

[quote SafeMove]@JudgeJ I have always wondered if there was an attempt to look at Begum grooming the two young people who went to Syria with her? As in she was the 'handler' as I am sure I read those two YP's are back in the UK. But maybe the CPS balked at charging a victim of grooming and argued that she was groomed to groom?

There is a lot more to this than we get to know I guess but I have always wondered if her initial communications before she left the UK have bern looked at and this has impacted on the decision making. Just thinking out loud. Used to work in CSE so it interests me around criminal responsibility.[/quote]
There’s an interesting point here. Virginia Giuffre says she was trained to find young, under age girls for Jeffrey Epstein, so she was a groomed girl taught to groom other young girls.

The media has (rightly) portrayed Virginia as a victim, but the same has not been afforded to Shamima.

[quote Cadent]@TableFlowerss you’re wasting people’s time and have serious comprehension issues with a number of posts upthread.

I’m done, don’t @ me again.[/quote]
Away you go then with you pathetic replies.

Can’t be bothered with sympathises of those associated with terrorism. shudder

[quote SafeMove]@JudgeJ I have always wondered if there was an attempt to look at Begum grooming the two young people who went to Syria with her? As in she was the 'handler' as I am sure I read those two YP's are back in the UK. But maybe the CPS balked at charging a victim of grooming and argued that she was groomed to groom?

There is a lot more to this than we get to know I guess but I have always wondered if her initial communications before she left the UK have bern looked at and this has impacted on the decision making. Just thinking out loud. Used to work in CSE so it interests me around criminal responsibility.[/quote]
The other two girls who left with her are dead.

@Cadent

Away and set up a support group for her - weirdo

[quote SafeMove]@TableFlowerss

Why are you ranting at me about narratives? There was a question about dual citizenship status. I answered it from the perspective of what the other countries have said. I offered no opinion.

Jack Letts is still in Syria and his parents have bern prosecuted for funding terrorism as they sent him £223.[/quote]
What are you taking about?? At what point did I @ you???????

@gingercatsparky

I think they want to make an example of her, to give a zero tolerance message out. The UK has been seen as a bit of a soft touch for a place to radicalise people. They are sending out a message this isn't the case, this is what could happen.

I think they are right to stand the hard group. Humans rights of the criminal seem to trump the human rights of the victims time and time again. She has committed terrible crimes she should not be allowed back in our country as she is dangerous.

Yes

@INeed2P

YABU.

She went to join ISIS at 16. She knew what she was doing - the claims that she thought it was just an Islamic organisation where she would be a wife and mum are absolute bull - everyone in the world knows what ISIS is and what it stands for.

Lots of people have troubled childhoods however they don't run off with friends to join a known terrorist organisation.

I think she comes across that way in interviews because she has absolutely no feelings that she has done anything wrong, l do not get any feeling of repentance (especially with her comments on the Manchester bombing) and she just thinks she deserves the chance to come to the UK.

It's true lots of children grow up with troubled childhhods. However perhaps her family dynamics/culture is perhaps a big part of what led the poor girl astray something obviously did!

Ok so if you have poor family dynamics, that’s a reason to become a terrorist is it? Hmm.
Most of the people in jail have come from dysfunctional backgrounds. Does that mean they aren’t responsible for their crimes?

Ok so if you have poor family dynamics, that’s a reason to become a terrorist is it? Hmm.
Most of the people in jail have come from dysfunctional backgrounds. Does that mean they aren’t responsible for their crimes?

^Obviously not. There are a lot of us come from dysfunctional backgrounds who don’t end up in jail or become involved in terrorism, after all.

However, the dysfunctional background makes them vulnerable to grooming or radicalisation. So it is still relevant; but pointing that out doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re excusing their actions.

This states that someone whose mother or father was a citizen of Bangladesh at the time of their birth, they shall also be a citizen of Bangladesh by descent.

Citizenship by descent
5. Subject to the provisions of section 3 a person born after the commencement of this Act, shall be a citizen of Bangladesh by descent if his 1[father or mother] is a citizen of Bangladesh at the time of his birth:

bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/act-242/section-7472.html

from this source.

bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/act-242.html

Section 14 states that dual nationality is not possible. So, if SB's parents had not acquired British Nationality by the time of her birth, I presume they'd have been Bangladeshi citizens still. I don't know if that was the case, though.

So, SB would have to have given up her British citizenship anyway if she had wished to take up Bangladeshi citizenship by descent. Of course that presupposes that there are no other restrictions preventing SB on taking up Bangladeshi citizenship by descent.

Of course, it may be that 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'. There may be a way of barring someone from taking up this citizenship by descent.

Last one.

The deprivation of citizenship section. I have no idea what applies or the intricacies involved.

bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/act-242/section-7483.html

Would you all be as accepting of veneables and thomson, thomson being younger who has disappeared, unlike veneables..
Compare those 2 to the much older girl and think about it
And the comment saying shes ours no she is not, if you seen old pictures of her father knocking about with the lee rigby killers youd change your tune.
She belongs to bobody and if shes wearing western clothes in a camp full of isis vrides you bet your boots she high up in the isis command. Dont let the my 3 babies died twist at the heartstrings either. not one ounce of compassion for those children has she shown, if they were hers anyway.
A liar, a murderer and an absolute fake.

@Itsmeagainandagain we ARE accepting of Venables and Thompson though - they live in the country, have lifelong anonymity and can live as free as they like.

I just don't understand how anyone, regardless if they think that SB is a hardened dangerous terrorist or an innocent and exploited child victim, can think that it is not Britain's responsibility to deal with her.

How can we possibly expect Bangladesh to take her? She has never held Bangladeshi citizenship, she has never visited that country. She was born IN BRITAIN, she was educated IN BRITAIN, she was radicalised IN BRITAIN. She is entirely a product of British making. Bangladesh has had nothing to do with it.

It would be bad enough if she were a dual national. In any case, Bangladesh has stated that no way are they giving her citizenship (whcih she would need to apply for). So she is stateless and it is illegal to make someone stateless.

She has done wrong, no doubt. But there are major questions over what she did and the degree of her culpability. These are questions to be determined in a court of law. Every criminal, no matter how heinous their crimes, is entitled to their day in court. That is where her fate shold be decided. Not by a politician playing to the mob braying for her blood.