AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

[HurryUpAndWait23]

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

The extremist religious views are the reason people dislike her

@mumda

Wasn't the work done on criminals that ended with a terrorist being battered with s nawhale tusk showing that radicalisation can't be undone.

Wouldn’t surprise me if this were true. People seem to forget that national security trumps most other things, whether the like it or not.

@Jaysmith71

"....but if she was white..."

Samantha Lewthwaite, wife of 7/7 bomber and alleged mastermind of the 2013 Nairobi Mall attack.

And Sally Jones.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/sally-jones-white-widow-dead-uk-isis-jihadi-kent-junaid-hussein-drone-strike-syria-a7997251.html

@INeed2P

YABU.

She went to join ISIS at 16. She knew what she was doing - the claims that she thought it was just an Islamic organisation where she would be a wife and mum are absolute bull - everyone in the world knows what ISIS is and what it stands for.

Lots of people have troubled childhoods however they don't run off with friends to join a known terrorist organisation.

I think she comes across that way in interviews because she has absolutely no feelings that she has done anything wrong, l do not get any feeling of repentance (especially with her comments on the Manchester bombing) and she just thinks she deserves the chance to come to the UK.

15, and no not everyone knows about isis. Maybe look at doing prevent duty training online (it’s free via the police) you’ll see how children can be manipulated and abused before joining radical groups.

She committed heinous & murderous crimes in Syria.
The age of criminal responsibility in Syria is 10 years old.
Therefore she can be tried for crimes in Syria.

She committed crimes in this country - Daesh/ISIL has long been a proscribed organisation - when she was over the age of criminal responsibility.

She is between a rock & a hard place: going through the Syrian justice system or returning to face UK criminal charges.

Of the two options, coming back to the UK is the safest for her...but for the UK?

The idea of her helping Boris is laughable, quite comic....& desperate.

I would not be surprised if the UK Govt take their refusal to the brink & then find a way, at minimal risk, to bring her back to the UK for trial to be both compassionate (rather than her trial in Syria) & hard line on terrorism (e.g. consecutive life sentences).

All those men and women out there involved in terrorism were once children too. Not one of them was born a terrorist. Their friends, family and environment turned them that way. They're all victims of grooming/radicalisation. Shemima is not any different, special or less wicked than any others who are victims of their upbringings.

I’m sure her friends and family might take issue with that. We don’t know enough about her family to make assumptions like that. She bears
the responsibility for her actions and choices.

Let’s hope nothing similar happens to your daughters as you would have zero understanding.

I grew up in one of the famous CSE grooming areas and went to school with many, many girls who were abused as part of the CSE grooming gangs.
I then went on to teach girls who were abused as part of the CSE grooming gangs.

It’s still happening.

It’s still being ignored.

You have no fucking clue what it’s like. I have far too much understanding. It keeps me up at night and has done for about 20 years.

She’s got nice nails.

@BadNomad

All those men and women out there involved in terrorism were once children too. Not one of them was born a terrorist. Their friends, family and environment turned them that way. They're all victims of grooming/radicalisation. Shemima is not any different, special or less wicked than any others who are victims of their upbringings.

So next time a terrorist attacks happens, we can blame it on Muslims in the U.K.

I might sympathise more if this young lady sounded like she cared. When you claim you're desperate to return to the UK but continue to inform us how she could ‘help your country’ then something feels off. She doesn't sound like she wants to come ‘home’ when she's describing it as ‘your’. She has also backtracked and tried to make out she knew nothing of the deaths caused by the Manchester bombings. Claiming she's a victim of grooming but doesn't sound like she has really learnt anything. There's no visible sorrow or compassion, it's more like paying lip service and saying the right things in order to garner sympathy and support.

Also Sajid has alluded to the fact that she was in no way “just” an bride, “if you knew the things I know and have seen the things I have seen you would have made the same decision”

Just trying to get my head around the point of her acquiring Bangladeshi nationality by descent; is it a fact that Bangladesh could reject any application for nationality by descent or is she automatically entitled to it? It would be strange that she was stripped of her British citizenship if the court were not satisfied that the option of another nationality was certain.

I thought the problem (for her) was that if she set foot in Bangladesh (and was a Bangladeshi national) she would be in danger of the death penalty for her involvement with a terrorist group. Whether that is simply for being involved with ISIS, or if it would be pending a conviction in a court in Bangladesh.

So, in short, if she is automatically entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship by descent, she wouldn't necessarily be rendered stateless. It would be a matter of not choosing to apply for that citizenship. Is it possible that this can be refused.

Of course, that is different question from whether the UK should have repatriated her home and charged her. Poor Syria are burdened with all these 'tourist' terrorists. And Bangladesh would be left holding some one else's baby.

She was groomed as a child, now what could she possibly say that could make anyone understand. That interview was shite sensationalism. She should be allowed back and tried in a court of law.

@greendiva

She was groomed as a child, now what could she possibly say that could make anyone understand. That interview was shite sensationalism. She should be allowed back and tried in a court of law.

I’ve asked this before but nobody keen on returning her seems to have an answer. If she goes to trial here, what will she be charged with? What evidence will be available? How will witnesses be called? I can’t see that a trial in the British courts is even possible for crimes committed in Syria.

‘ I’ve asked this before but nobody keen on returning her seems to have an answer. If she goes to trial here, what will she be charged with? What evidence will be available? How will witnesses be called? I can’t see that a trial in the British courts is even possible for crimes committed in Syria’

Not my area of expertise, but I assume that she would be charged under Terrorism Act & that would include her engaging with Daesh/ISIL before she left the country, & whilst she was abroad.

Evidence would be covered by her online activity, UK associations & by her own words at a minimum.

@Cailleach1

Just trying to get my head around the point of her acquiring Bangladeshi nationality by descent; is it a fact that Bangladesh could reject any application for nationality by descent or is she automatically entitled to it? It would be strange that she was stripped of her British citizenship if the court were not satisfied that the option of another nationality was certain.

I thought the problem (for her) was that if she set foot in Bangladesh (and was a Bangladeshi national) she would be in danger of the death penalty for her involvement with a terrorist group. Whether that is simply for being involved with ISIS, or if it would be pending a conviction in a court in Bangladesh.

So, in short, if she is automatically entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship by descent, she wouldn't necessarily be rendered stateless. It would be a matter of not choosing to apply for that citizenship. Is it possible that this can be refused.

Of course, that is different question from whether the UK should have repatriated her home and charged her. Poor Syria are burdened with all these 'tourist' terrorists. And Bangladesh would be left holding some one else's baby.

Bangladesh has said she is not entitled to be a national of their country, that she has never visited Bangladesh, she was not a citizen of Bangladesh and would be denied entry to the country.

Sajid Javid lying that she is entitled to nationality there and his implications that he knows a lot is just his attempt to curry favour with the Brexit-voting, UKIP/ right wing factor.

Those that believe she should stay where she is

Do you also agree that those in prison here or are on parole fighting to not be sent back to their home country (often because they know prison is harsher) should be able to stay in the UK? There is a number of violent drug dealers who are fighting this. They made choices

@UniversalAunt

‘ I’ve asked this before but nobody keen on returning her seems to have an answer. If she goes to trial here, what will she be charged with? What evidence will be available? How will witnesses be called? I can’t see that a trial in the British courts is even possible for crimes committed in Syria’

Not my area of expertise, but I assume that she would be charged under Terrorism Act & that would include her engaging with Daesh/ISIL before she left the country, & whilst she was abroad.

Evidence would be covered by her online activity, UK associations & by her own words at a minimum.

This is correct, a quick Google would have given you the answer Blossom.

I too think there may be a racial element. Nobody complained about the white British ISIS member getting blown up, but lots are up in arms about this obvious threat to national security not being allowed home.

Sajid Javid lying that she is entitled to nationality there and his implications that he knows a lot is just his attempt to curry favour with the Brexit-voting, UKIP/ right wing factor

😂 think he knows more than you hen! Despite how you try to manipulate it…

@ColorMagicBarbie

I too think there may be a racial element. Nobody complained about the white British ISIS member getting blown up, but lots are up in arms about this obvious threat to national security not being allowed home.

Facts? Data? Links?

Or are you just making that up to fit your agenda?

Bangladesh ministry have said she is not allowed in. Its been widely reported. It’s irrelevant what Sajid Javid believes.

She comes across as awful! No empathy, even when she talks of her own children.

I do not want to see her return to this country. She made her bed…

It's a dangerous precedent to revoke a criminal's citizenship in this way. She should be tried and punished according to the law in the UK, just like we do to all other criminals - rapists, murderers etc, who commit much worse crimes and still maintain their citizenship and a chance to rehabilitate after serving their sentence. She was only 15 and there is ample information out there about the power of these movements to radicalise young people. I think she should be punished but do we really want to give governments the power to remove citizenship when someone is inconvenient in this way? Is she really more dangerous in a UK prison than any of the other British criminals in prison?