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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

999 replies

HurryUpAndWait23 · 15/09/2021 14:21

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

OP posts:
SmokeyDevil · 16/09/2021 07:40

Thank you for stating this.

Not to mention the MILLIONS of 'brown' Syrians, youngsters in the ME, India, Pakistan and Afghanistan who have all somehow managed to avoid joining terrorist groups that incite violence. I managed it too despite growing up in a country where terrorism has been rife since I was 6 years old. My parent's office was blown up (they only just missed being in it), and amazingly I didn't feel the urge to go participate in the death and destruction of those responsible.

It enrages me that we, who live here in the UK, are fortunate enough to have a Govt with sufficient resources to do the due diligence that will keep them safe from people who would happily murder them and all their loved ones. And we still believe it's all a big massive conspiracy against women, ethnic minorities etc. Almost like it's hard to believe a brown woman can be capable of psychopathic tendencies or her own thought process.

You are exactly correct. And those wanting her back will be the first complaining if she attacks us, no doubt saying 'but you didn't tell us she was dangerous'. Hmm She quite obviously a likely danger to us, how likely we do not know, we do not have that information. Since they keep refusing to let her back, I'm going to assume that someone knows more than us, so I don't want her back. I actually value my life and that of innocent people.

Chamonixshoopshoop · 16/09/2021 07:41

I think if we were exposed to the intelligence (which quite rightly we’re not). Very few people would want her home.
They’ve stopped her coming back for a reason, and I think she’s been far more involved with the violence than she says.
She also doesn’t come across as remorseful at all and even up until last year was defending the Manchester bombings.

RuggerHug · 16/09/2021 07:42

Not one person on this thread saying she should rot, isn't a British problem etc has been able to explain why she's wrong but 'their' white boys are heros for actually murdering innocent people with weapons paid for by their taxes. Full support for them but her. Nah.

Heartsinflowers · 16/09/2021 07:48

You are exactly correct. And those wanting her back will be the first complaining if she attacks us, no doubt saying 'but you didn't tell us she was dangerous'. hmm She quite obviously a likely danger to us, how likely we do not know, we do not have that information. Since they keep refusing to let her back, I'm going to assume that someone knows more than us, so I don't want her back. I actually value my life and that of innocent people.

The guy on tv yesterday (sorry can’t remember name) who was responsible for making the decision not to let her back had said if everyone else had read what he had read about her and what she has done they would also have no doubt that she shouldn’t be allowed back. It wasn’t just him he had consulted with many others and stressed the did not make the decision lightly. We do not know the half of it, it seems and the people who do have made the decision with full knowledge. We should respect that.

Chesneyhawkes1 · 16/09/2021 08:07

@FOJN spot on!

I certainly wouldn't want British soldiers to risk their lives going to get her.

She can stay where she is!

Feelingoktoday · 16/09/2021 08:17

If she comes back I can’t see her being detained for long as the human rights lawyers will appeal and appeal and appeal. Eventually she will sue for millions. She will then be free to do what she wants. It’s not that I don’t have sympathy I just don’t trust our legal system to do the right thing anymore - which is to put her in prison for many years for terrorism.

lockdownmadnessdotcom · 16/09/2021 08:53

@RuggerHug

Not one person on this thread saying she should rot, isn't a British problem etc has been able to explain why she's wrong but 'their' white boys are heros for actually murdering innocent people with weapons paid for by their taxes. Full support for them but her. Nah.
Nobody has said anything about our white boys being heroes.

And whatever the rights and wrongs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a democratic country is a different deal to a murderous cult which wants to kill, torture and maim everyone they can get their hands on.

brokenbiscuitsx · 16/09/2021 08:57

I stopped feeling sorry for her the moment I saw that other interview where she was asked about the Manchester bombings and not only did she fail to disagree with them she implied she agreed with it.

FOJN · 16/09/2021 08:59

Not one person on this thread saying she should rot, isn't a British problem etc has been able to explain why she's wrong but 'their' white boys are heros for actually murdering innocent people with weapons paid for by their taxes. Full support for them but her. Nah.

No one has tried to explain support for UK forces because it hasn't been raised until now rather than it being ignored.

I don't think anyone is happy about civilian deaths in war. There was strong opposition to the second Iraq War and participation in Afghanistan. UK forces did not enter into the Syrian civil war because David Cameron could not get parliamentary support for deploying troops. Many MP's spoke very powerfully against doing so, most notably Hilary Benn. I'm writing that from memory.

UK forces are governed by quite a few conventions in war which means our troops are not permitted to subject civilians or opposition forces to inhumane treatment. Most people were horrified by the Human Rights abuses perpetrated by some of our Armed Forces in Iraq.

It is possible to support our military whilst disagreeing with government decisions about troop deployment. Our military are paid to do a job and go where they are told to.

8.8% of our Armed Forces are BAME and 11% are female.

Shamima Begum joined a barbaric death cult which does not observe any of the international conventions governing military behavior in international conflicts.

HarrietsChariot · 16/09/2021 09:11

Terrorists and people who assist terrorists are expert manipulators. Time and again, convicted terrorists successfully con the authorities to convince them that they are "cured" or "de-radicalised" before going on to engage in further terrorist ventures.

No doubt Begum wants to help, but the question is, help whom? A terrorist's wife in her position would love to get involved in "helping" the intelligence services - misleading them, feeding them false information, all to enable genuine threats to remain undetected.

It takes a lot to decide mass slaughter of innocent people is justified on the grounds they don't necessarily have the same strict religious beliefs as you. She was a child, but a child is capable of knowing that mass murder is wrong. People say she was groomed but there's a big difference between being groomed into thinking shoplifting is OK, and being groomed into thinking murder is fine.

IVFNewbie · 16/09/2021 09:19

[quote Torisbonson]@IVFNewbie she is not victim. Victims are those whom ISIS killed. She went to Syria support the killings.

The Manchester bombers were also supposed to be reforming terrorists. But look what they did.
How can some of you be so sure that she is victim? Do you know her personally?
By your logic, nobody should be punished for their criminals acts as majority of them
are victims of their circumstances.[/quote]
It's the age she was. In other circumstances, such as sexual relationships, we say that girls at aged 15 aren't responsible. I don't see why this should be any different.

Washeduponthebeach · 16/09/2021 09:25

The age of legal responsibility is ten.

RuggerHug · 16/09/2021 09:50

I was talking about somewhere closer to home.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 16/09/2021 10:41

It's the age she was. In other circumstances, such as sexual relationships, we say that girls at aged 15 aren't responsible. I don't see why this should be any different.

Because she was actively and enthusiastically involved in the rapes and murders of people. She was at least aware that the beheadings were happening before she went and was happy to be a part of that.

She willingly went to take part in criminal and violent activities.

Itstheprinciple · 16/09/2021 10:42

I complete Prevent training annually. We are told to treat Prevent as part of safeguarding. Shamima's story is exactly what Prevent is aiming to avoid. In her case, she was not safeguarded. No one noticed (or, of they did, did anything) that she was being radicalised. Whatever negative things she would have heard about ISIS would have been explained away as being justifiable as following the 'true Muslim way'.

Once she was there, do you think she could have just turned around and said she'd changed her mind and wanted to come home? No, of course not.

If someone powerful in ISIS told me to sew up a suicide vest, I think I would jolly well have sewn it up if I was in fear for my life, or the life of my child.

If I saw a head in a bin, but I had been told that they had committed some 'terrible' sin, then I would go along with it.

When she did those initial interviews in the hijab, she was still within the original camp, so of course she couldn't speak freely about Manchester bombings or heads in bins. I imagine what she knew or could find out about the outside world was very limited and told to her through an ISIS lense.

For those saying she comes across poorly, she has been contained within a very strange environment for most of her formative years. She is probably still struggling with cognitive dissonance about the different things she has been told.

In my opinion, she is a victim and should be treated as such. She has been failed by us.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 16/09/2021 10:55

@Fraine

Hmmmm yeah makes you wonder..... Wink

Why are you smirking, @MyPatronusIsACat? Do you really think this is what the parents of those 3 girls, and others, wanted for their daughters? They were all devastated. You really are callous. Those parents are not a disgrace, you are.

Hmm, I don't think they were devastated...

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-is-not-to-blame-for-shamima-begum-s-radicalisation/amp?twitterrimpression=true

Cailleach1 · 16/09/2021 11:28

@Itstheprinciple

If I saw a head in a bin, but I had been told that they had committed some 'terrible' sin, then I would go along with it.

Really? You'd think it was ok under some circumstances.

RoyalMush · 16/09/2021 11:32

‘She has been failed by us’
Maybe the girls’ school friends, teachers, mosques, their friends from mosque, their families, other around them failed them in preventing them from falling into extremism (and they weren’t the first in their school to do this so there has to have been an issue somewhere in their social circles of grooming kids to extremist views).
And we definitely need better safeguarding around what content social media platforms will allow posters to share etc. Not just around extremist content, lots of other areas too and that’s something successive governments have failed to tackle for various reasons.
But I don’t think it’s all of us who failed those girls. How? What should we all collectively be doing differently, if that is the case?

huniepop · 16/09/2021 11:35

@RuggerHug

Not one person on this thread saying she should rot, isn't a British problem etc has been able to explain why she's wrong but 'their' white boys are heros for actually murdering innocent people with weapons paid for by their taxes. Full support for them but her. Nah.

Sorry, who have you seen who supports white Terrorists?

People are vocal about Shamima because she's had more publicity. She's had more attention due to her age and the fact she's female.

Nobody should support or excuse Terrorists. Not sure how many times it actually has to be said that they kill indiscriminately, and are extremely dangerous even if they aren't physically killing. And you're acting like non white people all support her- we don't.

GladAllOver · 16/09/2021 11:53

The people who gave her those twisted values and encouraged her to join ISIS are still here. They will welcome her back as a heroine.

She'll be in the news constantly.

It will need a huge security operation for years to come, to monitor her and an increasing band of contacts.

It would be an act of folly to take this woman into our country.

Blossomtoes · 16/09/2021 12:24

This is a bit late but this is an absolutely horrific watch. These are the victims of Isis - the regime Begum supported and succoured. I reserve my sympathy for these women

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04f26sh

Viviennemary · 16/09/2021 12:30

She was not failed by us. She was in a civilised country which has laws in place to prevent murder and killing. Not to mention womens rights. She ran off to join a muderous cult. She should be at the very bottom of any list of folk who need to be saved. Maybe the Taliban will rescue her.

Rosesareyellow · 16/09/2021 12:41

Many people have seriously hate for this girl - I’m surprised she’s so keen to come back, living in a refugee camp is surely not easy but I don’t think she’d be safe in the UK at all. From what I’ve seen on social media many people really feel deep hatred for her - most people of course won’t act on that but honestly I think she’d be severely beaten up or dead within a month.

vivainsomnia · 16/09/2021 12:41

Er…because one ran off with their adult teacher and one ran off to join a disgustingly violent and cruel terrorist organisation, that’s maybe why they’re judged differently

Many posters are totally missing the point. The fact that the outcome was severe doesn't make the grooming or radicalisation any less significant, if anything it's the exact opposite.

This girl was and most still is as vulnerable as it gets. It's sad she is being judge on the outcome of her abuse rather than the fact that she's been abused in the worse possible way in the first place.

Blossomtoes · 16/09/2021 12:46

@vivainsomnia

Er…because one ran off with their adult teacher and one ran off to join a disgustingly violent and cruel terrorist organisation, that’s maybe why they’re judged differently

Many posters are totally missing the point. The fact that the outcome was severe doesn't make the grooming or radicalisation any less significant, if anything it's the exact opposite.

This girl was and most still is as vulnerable as it gets. It's sad she is being judge on the outcome of her abuse rather than the fact that she's been abused in the worse possible way in the first place.

What absolute rubbish. She was the abuser. Watch Stacey Dooley’s programme. Read this www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/25/slaves-of-isis-the-long-walk-of-the-yazidi-women

Isis raped kids as young as eight. That’s “as vulnerable as it gets”.

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