AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

[HurryUpAndWait23]

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

Fraine

Lies? The atrocities committed by ISIS are very well documented, why are you insisting someone else does your research for you. I have no care or concern about whether you believe me or not the evidence exists for anyone with an interest in finding out. You seem more intent on defending ISIS, making unfounded accusations and starting an argument, that's really not my bag.

@halloweenie13

we the 'general public' do not see even half of what she has done, said and is capable of. Grooming or not everyone comprehends how serious ISIS are and were and it is vastly different to the standard grooming in this country. We cannot verify or not who she is in contact with, what she knows or what she is now capable of. All of you defending her now will not be responding if something were to happen because of her return. You should be just as responsible for any events if she returns and held responsible for your words and actions.

Who’s defending her?

She should be tried here. She’s not the only one - she’s just the high profile one. So let’s keep her here where we know what she’s done, who her contacts are etc.

The treatment of her is inconsistent with others who have done similar.

[quote Theythinkitsalloveritisnow]@Iggly my "explanation" that is based on my admittedly very incomplete reading around Middle Eastern politics and recent history and the involvement of many countries and organisations, sometimes in good faith, sometimes very much not is that, like most issues, it's too complicated to reduce down into simple minded slogans about the West. But I'm guessing you are a Corbynite, and they are not known for being able to cope with any kind of vaguely complex ideas.[/quote]
Ah, bless.

Throwing out insults and assumptions like calling me a Corbynite. Is that the best you have?

Ouch. That really hurt.

😐

@Fraine

Hmmmm yeah makes you wonder.....

Why are you smirking, @MyPatronusIsACat? Do you really think this is what the parents of those 3 girls, and others, wanted for their daughters? They were all devastated. You really are callous. Those parents are not a disgrace, you are.

What a delusional comment, you claim they were children in one sentence yet in another claim their parents essentially weren't responsible or a disgrace. They should have been monitoring their children's communications and have educated them enough to understand ISIS are horrific and it was not a good idea. I understand you are attempting to be woke and claim the racism card for them not returning home, but NOONE WOULD BE ALLOWED TO RETURN AT SUCH A HIGH RISK. You are coming across very poorly on these comments. Sincerely a mixed ethnicity northern 23 year old.

@FOJN

Fraine

Lies? The atrocities committed by ISIS are very well documented, why are you insisting someone else does your research for you. I have no care or concern about whether you believe me or not the evidence exists for anyone with an interest in finding out. You seem more intent on defending ISIS, making unfounded accusations and starting an argument, that's really not my bag.

I absolutely believe the link @Iggly posted, so don’t obfuscate.

I think you are personally making stuff up. The thing about toddlers isn’t in the Escape from Hell article, which is what you said.

She may have point tho....

Three hard facts, not fiction, not hearsay, not opinions, FACTS;

1. She is now longer a British citizen.
2. She doesn't not hold a British passport.
3. She is/was a willing member of a terrorist organisation.

@halloweenie13

we the 'general public' do not see even half of what she has done, said and is capable of. Grooming or not everyone comprehends how serious ISIS are and were and it is vastly different to the standard grooming in this country. We cannot verify or not who she is in contact with, what she knows or what she is now capable of. All of you defending her now will not be responding if something were to happen because of her return. You should be just as responsible for any events if she returns and held responsible for your words and actions.

I don't see anyone defending her, I certainly am not.

She however does deserve a fair trial.

I hope you'd say the same if Shamima was your daughter.

@halloweenie13

What a delusional comment, you claim they were children in one sentence yet in another claim their parents essentially weren't responsible or a disgrace.

Dun, because her parents didn’t do the grooming. They didn’t even know. So how are they a disgrace? You are delusional!

They should have been monitoring their children's communications and have educated them enough to understand ISIS are horrific and it was not a good idea.

Did you say the same about the Rotherham grooming victims?

I understand you are attempting to be woke and claim the racism card for them not returning home, but NOONE WOULD BE ALLOWED TO RETURN AT SUCH A HIGH RISK. You are coming across very poorly on these comments. Sincerely a mixed ethnicity northern 23 year old.

You are coming across as pretty hateful of a 15yo who made terrible choices.

@Whammyyammy

Three hard facts, not fiction, not hearsay, not opinions, FACTS;

1. She is now longer a British citizen.
2. She doesn't not hold a British passport.
3. She is/was a willing member of a terrorist organisation.

But she was a British Citizen. She was born here.

What would we have done if she didn’t have dual nationality?

I think you are personally making stuff up. The thing about toddlers isn’t in the Escape from Hell article, which is what you said.

No I didn't I said it was in an interview. It really isn't the kind of thing you just make up. I remember the details about it in far more detail than I would like but it was several years ago now and I can't remember if it was a Yazidi woman or someone from Armed Forces or an aid agency.

[quote EverdeRose]@Fraine

It really doesn't matter how she ended up there, she went, she lived that life and is utterly unrepentant about it. She doesn't speak as someone who was groomed and knows better now, she speaks as someone who is only upset that she backed the losing side.[/quote]
Exactly. She is unrepentant and hard hearted. If she's so keen on extremist ideology perhaps she should go to Afghanistan, the Taliban might welcome her with open arms. They are welcome to her.

Today's "outfit" and painted nails were done to portray her as a now a "westerner"

It just seemed odd, the visuals of it. Stood in a refugee camp with a manicure and a Nike cap on. I didn't get it...

That aside. Whilst I can completely see that a young person can be radicalised and join a terror organisation, I'm not quite sure why the reality of the horror never sank in. Why she joined the "morality" police and beat and policed fellow women for not being shariah, or proactively carried guns and helped men see themselves in to bomb vests! It's that part I'm not getting. Her argument was I went over to be a good wife, but she actually became a militant member of ISIS.

@Iggly I have repeatedly said what I think, the fact that you choose to respond to that rather than any of the points I made I made just suggests you can't. But I understand, you feel the need to excuse the actions of ISIS and try to blame the West or bring in some odd equivalency between the actions of ISIS and the UK. You seem to be under the impression that ISIS are just run of the mill fighters, not much better or worse than any others. You are either ignorant of what went on in Syria or have a truly warped value system. I can't be arsed to engage any more with you, there is literally no point. You have zero knowledge but think you know everything. It's pathetic.

@FOJN

I think you are personally making stuff up. The thing about toddlers isn’t in the Escape from Hell article, which is what you said.

No I didn't I said it was in an interview. It really isn't the kind of thing you just make up. I remember the details about it in far more detail than I would like but it was several years ago now and I can't remember if it was a Yazidi woman or someone from Armed Forces or an aid agency.

Well you said ‘The rape of very young children (who did not survive the abuse) was reported in an interview but details of ISIS taking Yazidi women and girls (as young as 8) as sex slaves was detailed in an amnesty report (Escape from Hell) ‘.

Except it’s not in there. It’s absolutely a harrowing, disturbing, despicable read. But there’s nothing about toddlers.

What would we have done if she didn’t have dual nationality?

I don't think she even has that. It's that she's eligible for another nationality because of her ethnicity. In other words someone born here to say two Somalian parents who's never stepped foot in Somalia but finds themselves on the wrong side of the law could find themselves on the next available flight to Somalia with only the clothes on their backs.

If she were white English we wouldn't be having this conversation. Indeed we might actually be sharing the link to a go fund me page.

[quote Theythinkitsalloveritisnow]@Iggly I have repeatedly said what I think, the fact that you choose to respond to that rather than any of the points I made I made just suggests you can't. But I understand, you feel the need to excuse the actions of ISIS and try to blame the West or bring in some odd equivalency between the actions of ISIS and the UK. You seem to be under the impression that ISIS are just run of the mill fighters, not much better or worse than any others. You are either ignorant of what went on in Syria or have a truly warped value system. I can't be arsed to engage any more with you, there is literally no point. You have zero knowledge but think you know everything. It's pathetic.[/quote]
Your words, they cut so deep. Ouch.

My point is that ISIS are not special. Yes, they’re a nasty bunch and have committed awful atrocities but you show your ignorance if you think they’re somehow different to what has gone on before.

But I’m not going to grant them special status simply because they’re one of more high profile organisations of their kind.

I’m not sure what’s so hard to understand about that.

And I didn’t grant them equivalence- you read incorrectly. My point was, and I repeat, that actions have consequences. Afghanistan has been subject to wars from foreign powers and it is no surprise we end up with the likes of ISIS. Did I say that that was justified? Nope. I just said it’s not a surprise.

Is that so hard to understand? Maybe, maybe not.

If she were white English we wouldn't be having this conversation. Indeed we might actually be sharing the link to a go fund me page

😂

She was 15 and groomed. She is the UK’s problem, no where else’s.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/redhanded/id1250599915?i=1000532463145
podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/redhanded/id1250599915?i=1000533172626

Fraine

Well you said ‘The rape of very young children (who did not survive the abuse) was reported in an interview but details of ISIS taking Yazidi women and girls (as young as 8) as sex slaves was detailed in an amnesty report (Escape from Hell)

I think the 'but' makes the different sources clear. Really I don't anything I say will cause ISIS reputational damage. You may be less offended if you stopped equating ISIS with Islam, that does do harm.

@FOJN

Fraine

Well you said ‘The rape of very young children (who did not survive the abuse) was reported in an interview but details of ISIS taking Yazidi women and girls (as young as 8) as sex slaves was detailed in an amnesty report (Escape from Hell)

I think the 'but' makes the different sources clear. Really I don't anything I say will cause ISIS reputational damage. You may be less offended if you stopped equating ISIS with Islam, that does do harm.

I really don’t care about ISIS, but I do think this idea we can post whatever we like on a forum and present it as fact as long as it’s what the majority want to hear, and then get outraged when asked for a source is extremely dangerous.

And there has been anti-Muslim rhetoric on this thread.

Any one of our children (those of that have children), could be taken advantage of in many different ways. That includes being swept up by the likes of ISIS or groomed online.

Indeed. Even Greta Thunberg could end up making nail bombs in Afghanistan if we're not careful!

Imagine if they radicalized the royal baby! We must proceed with extreme caution.

@Iggly

If she were white English we wouldn't be having this conversation. Indeed we might actually be sharing the link to a go fund me page

😂

None of this is funny. It’s actually quite offensive to try and link her case to many real injustices that are race related. There is no campaign for Jack Letts. The treatment of The Yazidis was well reported so I think some of the ‘ oh do you have a link?’ is disingenuous and deliberately trying to mislead. Some of the reported incidents are very hard to forget .