AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

[HurryUpAndWait23]

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

@Sleeplessem

There’s no excuses to be made for her, many others have grown up in exactly the same environment and not joined a radical organisation BUT she was groomed as a child. Many of the same tactics that recruiters for ISIs used are the same as we see in other types of child grooming. She’s just not a good enough Victim which is why the public is happy for her to rot out there. Her poor children though- they didn’t deserve this and I can’t help but wonder, if her baby was white would he still have been left out there to die?

Not a good enough victim? She's not a victim at all.

But you seem to think that being non-white means you are beyond reproach. The public aren't lacking in sympathy for her because she's brown. They simply don't like her because of her appalling actions.

Thing is, we don't decide to suspend justice because people aren't likeable or have funny looking eyes, in xase they don't get some imagined measure of punishment. When she was 15, she did something stupid and/or criminal. From the moment she crossed the border, she has had no free will, has been in danger and has probably suffered degrees of trauma that we cannot imagine. I don't imagine she is safe now. She has charges to face, and probably time to serve. Avoiding all that by deciding she wasn't really British after all is pretty shit.

Yes bring her home after all at 15 I thought that beheading journalists was perfectly ok. That removing all female rights was the best course of action and that setting up sex slave camps was a good ideal...nothing wrong with any of that.

It must be worrying for those with dual nationality - it seems you can just get thrown out of the U.K. despite being British. Yes, this is an extreme case, but there is now a precedent for it and slippery slopes do exist.

I believe the decision is wrong - she should have been dealt with in Britain - we can’t just leave British citizens in other countries, and take citizenship away, just because we can’t be doing with the bother of it all and need to pander to public opinion, public who mostly haven’t a clue on how nationality works here or elsewhere.
I dislike too the double standards over grooming - I too would never have joined ISIS but that’s because I wasn’t a Muslim, was more keen on boys than on increasing my observance to any religion, wasn’t sometimes bullied about my religion making me want to hold on tighter to it as a good start. Of course groomers groom those who have a starting point they can work with.
Maybe as an adult we would like to say they chose it they can live with it but she was 15 - the law steps in when under 18s think they can choose for themselves normally. And whatever we’d like to say about leaving anyone there, again anyone who is British should be dealt with by Britain.

I think she will always be a risk, I think she should be judged on her actions, I understand the dislike, the fear, but still we can’t just void British citizens. The pointed hatred at one person, also worries me, as to why we are still using individuals to show ‘our’ strength, or as warnings to others. The issue is massively bigger than one girl.

@LittleGwyneth

The amount of insanely stupid shit I did at 15, I can't judge anyone else who made a mistake.

Even if you don't like her, she was born in the UK, she was a UK citizen and it is very scary if the government feel they can start removing people's citizenships as a punishment for bad behaviour.

If she came back to the UK she could be an incredibly useful tool for anti extremism work.

There's "insanely stupid shit", and then there's joining a death cult.

Getting drunk on Bacardi Breezers in a field, having unprotected sex, skiving school, taking pills bought from a Sixth Former, smoking, stealing from a newsagents are not ideal things to be doing at 15 - or at any age. Plenty do though, people make mistakes and we live to see another day.

Joining a terrorist organisation which bombs, rapes, beheads, stones, drowns, maims, drops from a height, kills and tortures men, women and children because of the colour of their skin, their beliefs, their actions, their sexuality, their country, their jobs, or just because they can is not even remotely on the same league as those things.

I could forgive my daughter of the things listed in the first paragraph, but forgive her for the rest? Not a chance.

I feel sorry for her. Lots of teenagers are stupid and she would have been influenced from a young age, younger than when she left for Syria. I think we need to allow people to grow and change. She seemed genuine to me

I don't care how she's coming across. She is OUR problem and is no-one else's issue to deal with but ours. These attempts by the British Government and the Daily Mail to palm her off on some other country are nauseating.

Zero remorse. And I have zero sympathy. It was clear from this mornings interview that every word that came out of her mouth was a lie, constantly looking to one side, touching her face and her mouth and her hair. Classic body language for a liar.

I really don't want to live in the same country as someone who stitched suicide bombers into their vests. Let Bangladesh take her if she wants to be out of Syria that much.

Don’t waste your pity on her. Think of those poor Yadizi people driven from their homes, murdered and raped. Remember Kayla Muella, who was tortured, and then killed after being forced to be a ‘sex slave’. Alan Henning who went to Syria to try and help the children and was beheaded, James Foley also beheaded.

This woman was part of all that.

@Butchyrestingface

I don't care how she's coming across. She is OUR problem and is no-one else's issue to deal with but ours. These attempts by the British Government and the Daily Mail to palm her off on some other country are nauseating.

Exactly! The arrogance of people saying send her to Bangladesh or stay in Syria is astounding. Why should Bangladesh deal with a British problem? She wasn’t born there or been nationalised there. And Syria has its own problems.

@Snoozer11 I agree 100%.

When I was 15 the worst mistakes I made were drinking neat rum in a park wearing blue mascara (don't judge is was the late 90s!). I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have joined a terrorist organisation as passed it off as a teenage mistake.

I feel that culturally some teenagers will be exposed to different scenes so rebel in different ways.

The 'barcardi drinking unprotected sex ' may be the rebellion representation in some cultures but not all.
For other culture's who don't relate to this scene they may instead be attracted to extreme groups as a form of rebellion.

@Cosmos123

I feel that culturally some teenagers will be exposed to different scenes so rebel in different ways.

The 'barcardi drinking unprotected sex ' may be the rebellion representation in some cultures but not all.
For other culture's who don't relate to this scene they may instead be attracted to extreme groups as a form of rebellion.

Very astute.

I am so shocked by the callous disregard being expressed by so many.

Callous disregard? Have you seen or read anything about the atrocities committed by ISIS. As a female enforcer do you think she had compassion for the women she helped oppress and abuse? What do you think life is like for an ISIS sex slave? Try imagining she did that to your 12 year old daughter? What kind of person continues to support a regime where it's acceptable for fighters to literally rape a toddler to death because they are the wrong kind of Muslim or just because they can? I don't feel callous disregard, it's more uncomprehending horror. Her actions are so far outside normal or acceptable human behaviour I cannot process it. Writing her off and pretending she doesn't exist is the only way I can deal with the fact that people like her actually inhabit the same planet as me and other decent human beings.

Teenagers do stupid things all the time.

Yes, me thinking a drug dealing boyfriend was cool was stupid. Joining a death cult is something else. Do you think a 15 year-old doesn't know beheading someone is wrong?

It's astounding how many people are complaining about hypothetically 'paying' for a British teenager to be imprisoned in the UK but see no problem on their taxes paying for soldier Fs pension and protection.

Some isis brides have been bought back through the back door into the UK.
No public attention.

Now been supported on reform programs.
I don't agree how one should be used politically to gain points by this government.

The government agenda is simply to distract attention from domestic policies which are destroying those at the bottom of society .

They care very little about the situation but if they can use it to their advantage they will.

I think people don’t understand the strength of feeling in some people within Muslim countries towards the west. I really don’t. And people would do well to understand that.

From the point of countries like Afghanistan (and African countries too), western countries came along and bombed the shit out of them. Or came along like cockroaches and completely decimated their resources for their own gain, killing many many innocent civilians along the way.

So yes, I can exactly see why an impressionable teenage would end up following ISIS.

People really have such a poor grasp is history and the impact of imperialism. It was one of the basic lessons in history that stuck with me - you only ever learn about the point of view of the person telling the story, unless you actively go out and find alternative sources.

Imagine, if you lived in a country and people from other counties came along and bombed your family for no discernible reason? Is it any wonder we have generations of angry terrorists? They then come along and kill our innocent citizens.

So, let’s not be stupid and pretend that our nation is innocent and ISIS was created in a vacuum.

I will say this, I fucking hate wars and I hate the history of the British Empire. What a nasty mess it has left behind.

Did she commit a crime in the UK? Any acts on behalf of ISIS were committed in Syria/Iraq. What right does the UK have to charge her or put her on trial?
I think the media tends to manipulate stories for their own gains. It’s been seen over and over. I’m not sure a 15 year old would truly understand what they were getting into with this organisation, we see all the time the two sides of child hood. The children sheltered from the cold realities and harsh conditions some grow and live in and those that live in those conditions/with that way of life.
How often on these forums have we spoken about how when some were children they left home in the morning not returning until after dark. This compared to children who don’t socialise/go out alone/have curfews? I’m not saying either is wrong they are a sign of the times we live in.
As for Shamina, I don’t know if she is traumatised by her experience, took part in it willingly or if there is some middle ground. Maybe it is something for neutral experts to decide?

Ugh @Snoozer11, I obviously don’t think that being non white makes you ‘beyond reproach’ just that race is one of the many things that don’t make her a very good victim in the eyes of the public.

She’s not an ideal victim because she’s was an ‘older’ teen, gobby, insolent, lacked remorse, brown, Muslim etc but she was groomed. Do I believe she didn’t know what isis was like in terms of violence or sectarianism when she joined? god no. But do I think she had been systematically indoctrinated to believe that non Muslim lives mattered less, the violence was ‘just’ and isis were exemplifying a true islamic lifestyle? - yes.

What kind of person continues to support a regime where it's acceptable for fighters to literally rape a toddler to death because they are the wrong kind of Muslim or just because they can?

@FOJN what are you even on about? Are you just making up any old shit now?

She was just a child when she took that flight. She wanted to help initially and then when she realised the reality of Raqqa there was no way out. Then she had children and everything was about protecting them (tragically, she couldn't and they died).

The UK have effectively trapped her in a camp as she has been made stateless, therefore can't leave.

I do really feel for her, I think it's horrendous. She was in a death cult and is being treated as though she was the founder when she was in fact a victim.

@Butchyrestingface

I don't care how she's coming across. She is OUR problem and is no-one else's issue to deal with but ours. These attempts by the British Government and the Daily Mail to palm her off on some other country are nauseating.

But she's had British citizenship removed, so if we're going to just look at the legal situation and ignore the nature of her actions, then legally speaking, no she isn't currently "our" problem

I find her change of clothing very odd, even if she had a change of mind on her actions, surely she would not go straight from fully covered, to uncovered hair and a vest top.

Seems like an act.

phishy

Information given by people who survived the atrocities. Feel free not to believe it. Interviews with yazidi women detailed some of the most horrific things I've ever heard about. There is also plenty of information about rape used in war. Seems lots of people on this thread are unaware of the true horrors which took place.

@Thomasina79

Don’t waste your pity on her. Think of those poor Yadizi people driven from their homes, murdered and raped. Remember Kayla Muella, who was tortured, and then killed after being forced to be a ‘sex slave’. Alan Henning who went to Syria to try and help the children and was beheaded, James Foley also beheaded.

This woman was part of all that.

Great, post, feels like the media want you to forget.