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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

999 replies

HurryUpAndWait23 · 15/09/2021 14:21

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

OP posts:
Sleeplessem · 15/09/2021 17:14

White people sort it out, how ignorant some of these comments are that the colour of her skin has nothing to do with how she’s been treated in the media and the resulting decision to strip her of citizenship, it has everything to do with it! The fact you can’t see it is because of your own privilege. There are people on this thread who grew up on BAME households literally stating how they’ve been othered their entire life and its just being dismissed as bollocks because it doesn’t fit in with a white crafted version of life on britain. Come on. This is part of the overall sentiment of feeling like they didn’t belong that let girls and boys be groomed in the first place.

Snoozer11 · 15/09/2021 17:15

@RubySlippers123

She must be so traumatised. Whatever we think of her actions as a child.
I'm sure the families of those who were videoed being beheaded by the terrorist outfit she supports are also traumatised. Along with the families of those stoned, drowned, thrown off buildings, bombed, raped, tortured, attacked, killed and terrorised.
RubySlippers123 · 15/09/2021 17:15

@PersonaNonGarter

Lols at all the people righteously saying bring her to book in a British court. Why should the tax payer pay for her to get out, come back, have a show trial, take up court time, prison service, put intelligence assets at risk, and so on? It not free to do all of that. And it would be a very weird political priority.

Far better and cheaper to strip her of her citizenship - and she can act as a high profile warning to any teen girls thinking of doing the same into the bargain.

I really doubt there are very many teen girls planning the same.

It's such a bizarre case.

peaceanddove · 15/09/2021 17:15

@Plumtree391

peaceanddove Wed 15-Sep-21 17:06:54 At 15/16 I absolutely had a sensible moral compass and knew right from wrong. ...... Good for you. Not everyone does at that age. I remember I was extremely impressionable. Thankfully I didn't know any terrorists then.

If a strict eye was kept on Shamima Begum, I think it would be all right for her to return home.

And would you feel completely comfortable if she was living in the same building as you? Or next door? Or working in your childrens' school?
RubySlippers123 · 15/09/2021 17:15

Well obviously @Snoozer11

wanttomarryamillionaire · 15/09/2021 17:15

She was 15 not 5!!!! If my 15 year old ds went out and committed murder he would be held accountable for it and quite rightly so! She is no different, she can rot in hell for all i care!

peaceanddove · 15/09/2021 17:16

And why should the tax payer spend a fortune closely monitoring her for years?

Snoozer11 · 15/09/2021 17:16

@Sleeplessem

White people sort it out, how ignorant some of these comments are that the colour of her skin has nothing to do with how she’s been treated in the media and the resulting decision to strip her of citizenship, it has everything to do with it! The fact you can’t see it is because of your own privilege. There are people on this thread who grew up on BAME households literally stating how they’ve been othered their entire life and its just being dismissed as bollocks because it doesn’t fit in with a white crafted version of life on britain. Come on. This is part of the overall sentiment of feeling like they didn’t belong that let girls and boys be groomed in the first place.
You know what helps people to fit in?

Not joining forces with terrorists.

HalzTangz · 15/09/2021 17:17

@HurryUpAndWait23

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

I don't feel sorry for her at all, she choose to go, after seeing the violence she choose to stay, and in interviews she defends all her decisions. I hope she's never allowed to return
tickledtiger · 15/09/2021 17:17

@Snoozer11 obviously it’s horrific. She should be judged over here though just like the other examples you mention would be.

holibobs12 · 15/09/2021 17:18

@Sleeplessem

White people sort it out, how ignorant some of these comments are that the colour of her skin has nothing to do with how she’s been treated in the media and the resulting decision to strip her of citizenship, it has everything to do with it! The fact you can’t see it is because of your own privilege. There are people on this thread who grew up on BAME households literally stating how they’ve been othered their entire life and its just being dismissed as bollocks because it doesn’t fit in with a white crafted version of life on britain. Come on. This is part of the overall sentiment of feeling like they didn’t belong that let girls and boys be groomed in the first place.

Any comment on the minority groups she and her regime oppressed, tortured and killed in unimaginable ways? She is not the victim here.

Blossomtoes · 15/09/2021 17:18

I felt exactly the same about Sally-Anne Frances Jones, aka The White Widow @Sleeplessem.

HalzTangz · 15/09/2021 17:19

Haven't got a link but the video was all over the news for weeks about a year ago

wanttomarryamillionaire · 15/09/2021 17:20

@Sleeplessem

White people sort it out, how ignorant some of these comments are that the colour of her skin has nothing to do with how she’s been treated in the media and the resulting decision to strip her of citizenship, it has everything to do with it! The fact you can’t see it is because of your own privilege. There are people on this thread who grew up on BAME households literally stating how they’ve been othered their entire life and its just being dismissed as bollocks because it doesn’t fit in with a white crafted version of life on britain. Come on. This is part of the overall sentiment of feeling like they didn’t belong that let girls and boys be groomed in the first place.
Absolute bollocks! What about white women who have ran off and joined isis? I can recall two who have been hunted down and shot. Maybe we should shoot shamima in the name of equality?
HalzTangz · 15/09/2021 17:20

@Jaysmith71

She's ours. We should take responsibility for her and bring her to book in a British court.
What, so our soft judges can slap her wrists and let her roam free
babbez · 15/09/2021 17:20

Come on people, she has a Union Jack pillow, see in the video posted by @Proudboomer

This is all an attempt to gain the public's forgiveness by praying herself in westernised clothing, as a young woman you'd see everyday. It's easy to succumb to, but we have to be more intelligent than that.

If she comes back to face justice, fine. But she's not a victim not has she changed her ways

kurtney · 15/09/2021 17:22

White people sort it out, how ignorant some of these comments are that the colour of her skin has nothing to do with how she’s been treated in the media and the resulting decision to strip her of citizenship, it has everything to do with it! The fact you can’t see it is because of your own privilege. There are people on this thread who grew up on BAME households literally stating how they’ve been othered their entire life and its just being dismissed as bollocks because it doesn’t fit in with a white crafted version of life on britain. Come on. This is part of the overall sentiment of feeling like they didn’t belong that let girls and boys be groomed in the first place

I don't know how many times Jack Letts, a white man, who held dual British/Canadian citizenship has to be mentioned for it to sink in. He was also stripped of his British citizenship.

And you're damn right I'm going to 'other' a terrorist, be they brown, black, white or any colour under the sun. Are you saying Begum's skin colour should be an excuse for the atrocities she's committed? What was the colour of the women that she held as sex slaves, or the head in the bin that she shrugged off as 'not bothering her'?

Sleeplessem · 15/09/2021 17:24

Obviously the group she joined was disgusting and it’s even more problematic for her to play the unsuspecting victim when isis really never hid who they were from the public, in fact they really marketed their brutality.

My point is, not that she’s innocent, not that she deserves forgiveness but that unfortunately race does play into how she’s been portrayed in the media, and how she was stripped of her citizenship and generally speaking public sentiment towards her. Ultimately she was a UK citizen who committed heinous acts, there have been many before her that have done similar and sadly there will be many after, she shouldn’t have been stripped of citizenship and left to rot. The fact that this decision has been celebrated by the public reeks of covert racism.

Washeduponthebeach · 15/09/2021 17:24

@Sleeplessem

White people sort it out, how ignorant some of these comments are that the colour of her skin has nothing to do with how she’s been treated in the media and the resulting decision to strip her of citizenship, it has everything to do with it! The fact you can’t see it is because of your own privilege. There are people on this thread who grew up on BAME households literally stating how they’ve been othered their entire life and its just being dismissed as bollocks because it doesn’t fit in with a white crafted version of life on britain. Come on. This is part of the overall sentiment of feeling like they didn’t belong that let girls and boys be groomed in the first place.
To be honest, if she was white the outrage would be even worse.
RuggerHug · 15/09/2021 17:26

Just checking something that I've seen on other MN threads. 15 and groomed=rot in hell, 16-24 handed weapons by an army and killing innocent people = fine. Is that it?

StoneofDestiny · 15/09/2021 17:27

She was 15 well over the age of criminal responsibility, which is 10 in England and Wales. She was capable enough to plan a trip to join ISIS that would be complicated for most people of any age, let alone the average 15 year old. She was able to deceive her family and get her travel documentation intact and travel without attracting suspicion. Not the behaviour of a naive or innocent person.
I watched the interview - no emotional reaction at all when the death of her two travel companions was mentioned or her 3 children. Not a hesitation, let alone a tear. Scary. It was all about herself.

Proudboomer · 15/09/2021 17:27

Skin tone has fuck all to do with it. When was the last time you saw a MN thread about Jack Letts being stripped of his citizenship and we are all a bunch of nasties for not letting home?

Sleeplessem · 15/09/2021 17:28

There’s no excuses to be made for her, many others have grown up in exactly the same environment and not joined a radical organisation BUT she was groomed as a child. Many of the same tactics that recruiters for ISIs used are the same as we see in other types of child grooming. She’s just not a good enough Victim which is why the public is happy for her to rot out there. Her poor children though- they didn’t deserve this and I can’t help but wonder, if her baby was white would he still have been left out there to die?

FrasierCraneDay · 15/09/2021 17:29

I'm in two minds about this. Part of me does think, as she is/was a British citizen then she is our problem to deal with. A fair trial in the British courts.
However, the other part of me thinks screw her, she knew damn well what she was doing, let her rot. Some idiot has been paid to dress her up in a Nike cap, do her false nails and dress her as a western woman, why? Are the British public seen to be stupid enough to fall for that bullshit? She's as much western as I am a size 0 catwalk model. The taxes it would cost to give her a trial could be better spent, but is that a slippery slope?
I'll pick the splinters from my backside now

Blossomtoes · 15/09/2021 17:32

if her baby was white would he still have been left out there to die?

Her kids’ father was white. He was a Dutch citizen.