AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

[HurryUpAndWait23]

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

Not falling for her BS. She's at it.

I feel that she is a victim of deliberate grooming and radicalisation. But at the same time I find that I don’t believe a lot of her protestations about not understanding what ISIS’s aims and plans were, or that she did not participate in acts of terrorism while in Syria.

I think for example that she was aware, in theory at least, of what ISIS stood for and planned, and that she knew it wasn’t only a dream to establish an Islamic state. After all she travelled with Amira Abase whose father attended a radical Mosque where support for jihadi and ISIS fanatics was rampant so she would have discussed this before leaving. However, knowing and understanding are two different things, we all know that young people’s minds don’t always work logically [you only have to read discussions about how young people believe the gender woke ideology they are fed by clever and manipulative organisations] . I really don’t think the true horror of ISIS was something those girls understood while they were in England, they were fed the lies and got caught up in an idealistic rhetoric of young freedom fighters giving their lives for a noble cause and religious martyrdom . I think it is sadly significant that one of the last things they did as they walked through the airport was to buy hair removing products. Did they expect romantic trysts with brave, handsome young husbands under star studded skies? I think they did, it’s how many 15 year olds see the world.

I imagine that this romantic vision was shattered very quickly on arrival in Syria when they realised the truth of the brutality and indifference to humanity that ISIS embodied. But by then it was too late.

I actually think she probably did do some of the awful things she has been accused of, but whether because she felt pressured to do so, or felt she had to fit in, or because she was confused by the mismatch of her expectations and reality, I don’t know the reasons, and I don’t think she does.

I hope she is truly repentant . I hope she does accept that she has done terrible things. I think she would be better advised to admit to everything she did and accept that she will be vilified for it, and that if she ever is brought to trial that she can expect a long sentence both in prison and as an object of hate. She is older, I hope she is wiser. She has become a blamed and hated figurehead of Islamic state radicalisation, and she will never escape that.

@Jaysmith71

She's ours. We should take responsibility for her and bring her to book in a British court.

This. Whatever she is. Guilty or a victim or both. She’s ours.

@tickledtiger

She was a groomed 15 year old. She shouldn’t have been discarded by this country. I’m sure it would’ve been different if she was white.

At this point she’s been made an example of though and I doubt she will ever be allowed back.

When is someone groomed and when does someone willingly go along with something?

I take it it's when you decide who is worthy of your sympathy?

A young white teen who is on web forums talking about rape and guns and murder, who then carries out his fantasies.. is he groomed by the incels online, or is he talking to them because he agrees with them?

All this talk of other young people being locked up for crimes is irrelevant. I don’t think anyone suggests she shouldn’t be prosecuted if found guilty by the courts - which I’m sure she will be. The difference in all those cases is they retained their British citizenship and had a fair trial. Why is she being denied that?

@Franklin12

Maassi - you sound utterly deluded. I am mixed race myself.

Having said that would you want her living next door to you? If you dont like the UK (and I think they are one of the most welcoming countries) where would be better for you I wonder? You sound like you have a massive chip on your shoulder and to excuse this women's actions because she is brown is nonsense..

I am not excusing her actions at all but trying to shine a light on the vitriol a brown or black person attracts.

@Wroxie

She was a groomed child and is a British citizen and I am 100% convinced that if she were white, she would have been home years ago - maybe put directly into a juvenile offender's institution or even prison if she were over 18 but home, nonetheless.

It doesn't matter whether you like her face or tone of voice or whether you think she's being honest about being sorry (which is complete bullshit, literally every study in this area has proved that people are completely unable to "tell" if someone is lying or not through their voice or body language, and if you think you can, you are delusional)- I will say again, she was a groomed child and a British citizen and she should be home. It is pure racism, hatred, and stupidity to say otherwise.

Disagree. Jack Abraham is white and had dual British/Canadian citizenship which was revoked as a result of his ISIS affiliation. I am Asian by race. This is not a race issue, it is one of security. This interview comes a week after the MI5 Director General described a terrorist attack as "highly likely" and that 31 terror plots had been foiled over a four year period. [ ]]. I was there when the tube and a bus was bombed in London. It was terrifying and I still sometimes wake up at night in panic..... be very careful.

@Nutkinsnuts

She deserves what she’s got

Absolutely.

Lols at all the people righteously saying bring her to book in a British court. Why should the tax payer pay for her to get out, come back, have a show trial, take up court time, prison service, put intelligence assets at risk, and so on? It not free to do all of that. And it would be a very weird political priority.

Far better and cheaper to strip her of her citizenship - and she can act as a high profile warning to any teen girls thinking of doing the same into the bargain.

@Franklin12
Where would be better for me to live? Oh um. Well I'm pretty happy living in the country I was born in thanks very much. Even if it is racist. Was your next comment going to be to tell me to fuck off somewhere else?

@VladmirsPoutine

Thing is childhood and innocence aren't usually granted / afforded to little brown girls therefore it's very easy for many to demonise SB.

I don't really understand what you mean by this in Shamima's case. It's not a factor here. If she was white she'd get the same treatment in this particular case.

This.

You can't strip someone of their citizenship. She's British. She was radicalised in Britain. She should be tried in a British court. Imagine the outcry if this was the other way round - radicalised Syrian girl comes to the UK to become part of terrorist organisation that commits atrocities, Syria revokes her citizenship and leaves us to deal with it. There would be an absolute outcry.

She needs to come back to the UK as a British citizen and face justice

Lols at all the people righteously saying bring her to book in a British court. Why should the tax payer pay for her to get out, come back, have a show trial, take up court time, prison service, put intelligence assets at risk, and so on? It not free to do all of that. And it would be a very weird political priority.

We do that for every other criminal. Why would this be different?

Far better and cheaper to strip her of her citizenship - and she can act as a high profile warning to any teen girls thinking of doing the same into the bargain.

And if this was your child? Or if this did set a precedent and we started to do it for other crimes committed abroad? For example, drug smuggling?

We should treat all citizens as we would like to be treated. Expecting a fair trial is a simple and important bar to set.

At 15/16 I absolutely had a sensible moral compass and knew right from wrong. She made a choice and joined ISIS without a backward glance. Then when ISIS lost, suddenly she was prepared to ditch all her beliefs and demand to return to the UK, without a backward glance.

Who is to say that if she is allowed to return she won't turn her coat again and once more become a terrorist supporter - but within nice, easy reach of a Starbucks and with decent mobile coverage.

She is not to be trusted. Never to be trusted. And this most recent, transparent attempt to appear sweetly Westernised with her make up and uncovered hair just proves that she has zero integrity.

What happened to her children?

@FourteenSixteenTwentyTwo

All this talk of other young people being locked up for crimes is irrelevant. I don’t think anyone suggests she shouldn’t be prosecuted if found guilty by the courts - which I’m sure she will be. The difference in all those cases is they retained their British citizenship and had a fair trial. Why is she being denied that?

It's relevant because so many people are excusing what she did by saying she was groomed. No one ever says the other crimes were the result of the young person being groomed.

It suggests that either brown people or girls or young brown girls either have no agency, or can't possibly do a terrible thing of their own volition. That they have to be forced or coerced into it. Which is wrong.

I don't agree stripping people of citizenship is the answer.

But I'm sick of seeing all the bleeding hearts excusing her support for a murderous, raping, violent outfit, and the implicit suggestion that comes with it that we must be racist for not showing her support and sympathy.

@RubySlippers123

What happened to her children?

They died as babies I think

Watch this. Look at the stark difference in the conditions the UN have supplied to the isis brides like SB and compare with the conditions their victims are still living in.

The UN should be ashamed of itself when it supplies more aid to the isis western brides than it does to a woman who was kept as a slave for 2 years by these rapists, murdering animals.

@RubySlippers123

What happened to her children?

They died sadly

She must be so traumatised. Whatever we think of her actions as a child.

@Maassi she is attracting vitriol not because she is brown or black.

But because she made a choice to join a group of terrorists who torture, murder, rape, bomb and maim those they don't like or agree with.

peaceanddove Wed 15-Sep-21 17:06:54
At 15/16 I absolutely had a sensible moral compass and knew right from wrong.
......
Good for you. Not everyone does at that age. I remember I was extremely impressionable. Thankfully I didn't know any terrorists then.

If a strict eye was kept on Shamima Begum, I think it would be all right for her to return home.