Ds expected to “help” another pupil with work in class

[LostFrog]

Ds is 9 years old, just started Year 5, first year of new school (middle school system here).

He tells me that when he has finished his own work in class, he is required to help a boy who sits next to him. This happens every single lesson, and he says that the boy is reluctant to work, won’t write anything, gives up quickly and mutters all the time that he doesn’t get it, etc. From asking around, this seems to be the standard on every table in the class - there is one or two pupils who are “learning mentors” who have to teach the less able ones.

Is this a) normal, and b) reasonable? It’s not like ds volunteered for this role. If he has finished, Shouldn’t he be offered an extension task whilst the teacher or TA (there is one, I checked) help the ones who are struggling? I have emailed the teacher to ask them to clarify what’s expected, but has anyone else come across this?

I’ve read mastery so many times I’m expecting Harry Potter to appear any moment.

What we all need is smaller class sizes, more ta’s and effective punishment/help depending for bad behaviour disrupting lessons, and extra work set for those how have finished and are bored and thus start acting up.

We are lucky in our primary we have a lot of ta’s and we take in multiple trainee teachers every year but we still have class size issues and lack of control over disruptive lessons. We however again do have a local secondary school that’s a only 20 per class school so hopefully the tide will turn.

I just asked my 9yo (Year 5) about it and he told me that he often has to help other classmates when he has finished work. Apparently he is OK about it sometimes but not always and would prefer to get some extension or read when he has finished. It also bugs him when some of the children keep calling "child's name! child's name"! come and help!". He said that last year his teacher was better as she had extension at hand for him but this year not so much. So it obviously depends on a teacher. sigh*

@ostravagirl

I just asked my 9yo (Year 5) about it and he told me that he often has to help other classmates when he has finished work. Apparently he is OK about it sometimes but not always and would prefer to get some extension or read when he has finished. It also bugs him when some of the children keep calling "child's name! child's name"! come and help!". He said that last year his teacher was better as she had extension at hand for him but this year not so much. So it obviously depends on a teacher. sigh*

This is definitely something you should take up with the school. They’re doing it wrong.

This happened to my DS in primary school, but only once he got to Y6 ... before that, he'd be given extension work. Come Y6, and suddenly he's helping his friend, who happened to also be dyslexic (yes, I know - more and more inappropriate) to complete his English.
In secondary, they've just reorganised the whole year, so apart from maths, science and computing, where they're in sets, he's now in a class (Y9) with people who, according to him, think Asia is a country and don't know where India is. The girl next to him apparently spends most of the lesson drawing pictures around the heading in her book. I'm in favour of mixed ability teaching, but I do wonder about some kids' attitude to learning

@Bimblybomeyelash

I’m not necessarily a fan of ‘extension work’ when tasks are completed. If a child is completing their work more quickly, then they should be getting more challenging work to start off with, not just MORE work. So I’d question if your child is being stretched and challenged sufficiently if he is always finishing ahead of others.

I’m a teacher. Extension work should not just be ‘more of the same.’ It should be more difficult, challenging work designed to widen and deepen a child’s knowledge and skills. Extension tasks ought to be built into good schemes of work. This is what OP’s son is missing out on. I would advise OP to speak to the teacher, have a discussion and request that her son gets extension tasks before being asked to help another child.

Our school have a ridiculous 3 before me rule, you have to ask 3 children in the class first before you are allowed to ask the teacher!

It is so unfair on the clever kids in the class as they never get time to do their own work.

ALL THE TIME. My DD2 finishes her work quickly and then has to spend her time helping another kid who can't do stuff. It's unfair on her and unfair on him.
She is also put as a human shield between 2 warring boys to try to keep them in order. If she is hit by one of the boys (a trouble-maker who arrived from another local school in Y5) the teacher tells her that "its just his way" and he should be left to calm down. He is never told off and she is never defended. When she hit back once, she was severely told off but he was not. Since the boy arrived, the girls have been stopped from playing football because he is violent towards them. But he gets to play football. I am so looking forward to her leaving. The school is full of weak teachers who leave the kids to do their work for them.

@bellie710

Our school have a ridiculous 3 before me rule, you have to ask 3 children in the class first before you are allowed to ask the teacher!

It is so unfair on the clever kids in the class as they never get time to do their own work.

That is appalling!! I would definitely complain if I were you.

@bellie710

Our school have a ridiculous 3 before me rule, you have to ask 3 children in the class first before you are allowed to ask the teacher!

It is so unfair on the clever kids in the class as they never get time to do their own work.

I quite like this! Why don’t you like it?

Because the clever kids are continually interrupted by the one's who can't or don't want to do the work.

ones not one's

Helping others is an extension task, to teach it you need to understand yourself. We call this "learning mentors" at my school. We are encouraged to set extension tasks for children where appropriate, and let them be learning mentors the rest of the time. Studies have shown it to be effective.

What do I think..? Hum, well my DS has just opted to be a digital / tech ambassador. He chose the role & with it signed up to the responsibility. So I think the key thing is the school need to set out what is expected from both sides- and the boundaries. If the child is not receptive to your DS support then the teacher needs to step in. DS Should not be expected to help with poor behaviour, as part of this responsibility

As a headteacher ... (a) common - yes , it's surprising how much you see this in schools. (b) reasonable - no, completely not. You send your child to school to learn, not to be an unpaid teaching assistant!

Pairing more/less able to complete a task together can be a valid strategy, but only if the more able is learning too, and the suggestion that this is when he's finished rules that one out.

[quote Pumperthepumper]@NumberTheory well, obviously he should be. He should be being told that calling someone stupid is not how we speak to each other. I don’t know what you mean about the deep end.[/quote]
If what the OP had described was a situation where her DS knew what was required of him, had been told how to tackle the challenge of helping a peer and got feedback from his peers and the teacher on what he was doing well and what he could work on, then I think most people would be telling the OP - this is a great way fro your DS to be stretched sometimes. But this isn't what the OP has described and she probably wouldn't have posted if that's what was happening.

What the OP has described is a situation where every lesson (which, even if it was well planned and supported, would not be appropriate) her DS, when he's finished his own work is supposed to turn around and help his neighbour, who is not interested. If there is any time spent providing her DS with the tools he needs to try and tackle this challenge or providing feedback for how well it's going then it isn't being done effectively as her DS has said he thinks he will get into trouble if this other kid doesn’t do their work and has said he doesn’t understand why this kid won’t at least try. Peer support can't be provided to kids who won't try.

There is nothing in the situation that OP has described that suggests that the hard work of making peer support a useful stretch activity where those skills are developed is being done and lots of things that suggests it is not

My comment about the deep end was in relation to the idea you seemed to be suggesting that being in a situation where he needs to exercise empathy, patience, etc. in order to succeed is enough to help him develop those skills. It isn't. Just as throwing someone into deep water is not enough to teach them to swim.

@thenovice

Because the clever kids are continually interrupted by the one's who can't or don't want to do the work.

Ah, I see. Poor management again.

Pumperthepumper
bellie710

Our school have a ridiculous 3 before me rule, you have to ask 3 children in the class first before you are allowed to ask the teacher!

It is so unfair on the clever kids in the class as they never get time to do their own work.

I quite like this! Why don’t you like it?

Did you just not read bellie's last sentence, where she told you why?

@NumberTheory I read it, thanks.

Both my DSs helped other pupils - one was asked to do so, the other just did it off his own bat because he’s that kind of kid. It worked for them but it wouldn’t necessarily work for every child and I would hope the teacher + TA take that into account. It certainly should be done as a matter of course.

My Daughter had this situation at Secondary School in years 9/10/11 during GCSE Maths, the boy was quite happy to have her help and she enjoyed helping him, the Teacher did ask her to help with the boy involved and his aptitude and grade improved with her help.

There are many reasons not to like this rule.

1. The teacher is relying on another child teaching your child Maths and hoping they know what they are doing.

1. Most of the time the child tells them the answer without any explanation so the teacher assumes they know what they are doing.

1. Any children who are clever instead of being given extra work or harder work to do they are doing nothing but helping other children, not being challenged at all!

I could go on, the school don't care everyone has complained tehy just ignore it, I am just glad my last child only has about anotgher 8 months in the school then she is gone!

@bellie710

There are many reasons not to like this rule.

1. The teacher is relying on another child teaching your child Maths and hoping they know what they are doing.

1. Most of the time the child tells them the answer without any explanation so the teacher assumes they know what they are doing.

1. Any children who are clever instead of being given extra work or harder work to do they are doing nothing but helping other children, not being challenged at all!

I could go on, the school don't care everyone has complained tehy just ignore it, I am just glad my last child only has about anotgher 8 months in the school then she is gone!

Sorry was in reply to @pumperthepumper

Some schools have a policy of C3 B4 Me. The idea is the child who is struggling will seek help from 3 sources before asking the teacher. This isn't what you are describing though and I would object to this not in the least because it is affecting your child but also where is the stretch and challenge if he isn't having extension tasks and the other child is being 'helped' by someone who has finished.

See .. I'm mixed about this.. Im Training to be a teacher and there is a big emphasis on how children helping other children is beneficial in lots of different ways.. self esteem etc etc child struggling finds it easier to talk to another child etc.. but IMO I feel like schools may be pushing this so they don't have to pay for a TA ..

@MissCruellaDeVil

Helping others is an extension task, to teach it you need to understand yourself. We call this "learning mentors" at my school. We are encouraged to set extension tasks for children where appropriate, and let them be learning mentors the rest of the time. Studies have shown it to be effective.

I absolutely see the benefits if used well. But if it bothers the child then surely the teacher should reconsider how much he/she uses it and how. I am not a teacher and I have a massive appreciation for their work but as in any other job some are better than others. So the question is whether this should be brought to the teacher's attention in case she just isn't aware that this bugs the child.