Male midwives - aibu

[Ikeasucks]

My 27 yr old niece is pregnant and we were discussing the coming birth - she said she would like to put female only midwife on her birthing plan but is worried how the staff, her friends etc will react as one “friend” told her she was being sexist and bigoted for taking that view. Aibu in thinking it’s perfectly fine and understandable for women to want another woman at such a time - it it’s possible

I also think it's highly misogynistic to expect women at their most vulnerable and exposed (not to mention what can be a very risky time) to bow down at the pillar of equal opportunities.

Men don't have to ask fir male physicians if they are having intimate stuff done - because you can bet your bottom dollar they were getting a male to start with.

Your DN is NBU as this is her choice. For me I just wanted a competent midwife and wouldn't have objected to a male midwife.

I had a male midwife 20 years ago when it was probably even more rare and after initial surprise did not think about it, I was just happy to have a professional midwife helping me.
I do personally think it’s quite sexist tbh unless you would also reject a male doctor or consultant as well.
But ultimately it is up to her and if she feels uncomfortable then she should request a female midwife as she needs to be as relaxed as possible.

@listentomydeclaration

I had female midwives and male doctors looking at my fanny

A male stitched me up and asked my DH "does that look okay" and my DH was like how the fuck should I know? (the male was a different nationality so maybe a husband's opinion matters!)

The point is that there may well be men present whether she likes it or not and that was often the way even before transgender became as common as it is now.

What does being transgender have to do with it?

I had a male midwife, he was incredible.
Although my first pregnancy had an excellent team he really made my second pregnancy better. I would say it’s unreasonable to discount a male midwife unless you really did have strong views about it.

I always find it interesting that people have a preference for a female midwife but don't seem to mind if they get a male surgeon for a cesarean. They both get to see everything! I had an amazing male anaesthetist during my labour who did far more to put me at ease than any of the female midwives.

I had a male MW for my booking appt at the GP in the UK. He was lovely - I was curious and asked if he minded me asking him why midwifery? He said he used to be a psych nurse but that got too much to bear, so changed to this, for more happy times in his career. Made sense to me.

Would I have had him at the birth? Yes, because he was a caring man. But if he'd been sprung on me while I was in labour I might have thought twice about it! The hospital I had DS1 in was also the one I used to work in, so I knew they had male MWs there too - not many, just a couple - but they always seemed very professional and kind. More so than some of the female MWs in some cases (we had a couple of harsh ones - I met one whilei trying to establish bf'ing with DS1 - stayed well clear of her after that!)

I had a male obstetrician for DS2. Started with a female but she patronised me more than he did, and refused to listen to some of my concerns - so I switched (this is in Australia so things are a bit different here and I needed continuity of care). Male obstetrician was in charge of the heavily managed delivery - did I care that he was male? No. I knew him too by then. If a male MW had been sprung on me at that point, would I have cared? Doubt it because it was All Going On and I don't actually even know who was in the room because there were quite a few students at that point, as well as DH ad the obstetrician.

Your niece is definitely allowed to request only female staff to attend her - but when it comes to it, she may have to accept that a male will be involved, especially if she needs an epidural (potentially male anaesthetist) or further intervention (potentially male obstetrician). She should ask who the likely options are at her maternity unit, or wherever she plans to give birth.

I have birth related CPTSD and am extremely specific about the scenarios I would tolerate a male healthcare provider. Birth is not one of them, whether that's a midwife, a consultant or similar. I would consider a male anaesthesiologist if I needed an epidural again, but it would be a last resort.

Realistically she is unlikely to be in a position where her wish for a female midwife is not able to be honoured, and she has every right to make it known.

@unim

For me an obstetric consultant is quite different as you are already in an emergency-type situation with a lot more medical monitoring.

The whole point of vaginal birth is that it is a totally natural function with, ideally, limited intervention. You need to feel comfortable. Ideally lights should be low, you should feel able to move around or make noises, you should feel supported and safe. For me this was not in keeping with suddenly having an unknown man put his hand in my vagina to check progress and I don't think it's remotely unreasonable to feel that way.

If we had continuity of care and could get to know the same midwife during pregnancy that would be with you during childbirth, it might be different.

I agree, spot on.

But they aren't being given a choice because there isn't one.

So in those scenarios wouldn’t they just refuse treatment? Like a PP has said they would.

If it were so traumatic for someone to have a male in the room, those feelings don’t suddenly disappear when the job role changes from midwife to consultant.

FWIW the most compassionate member of staff I experienced when I gave birth was the anaesthetist. He was outstanding, rushed to get me out of pain, change the medication to speed up pain relief and held my hand when my DP wasn’t allowed into theatre.

The whole event is intimate, and the reason you’re there in hospital is to be cared for with the best possible chance of everyone making it home. If someone doesn’t want any male around due to some past trauma it is understandable, if someone only wants the ‘lower ranking’ staff to be female and the ‘higher ranking’ ones are ok to be male then.. yes it does suggest a little gender bias.

I feel sorry for male medical staff. Yes, the OP's niece has every right but I think we need to ask ourselves why we feel this way.

Isn't it more important to teach females that male medical staff is there to help us? I had bad experiences with female GPs, do I shunt down all of them?

My mum had male nurses at a hospital stay, they were great and fun and caring.

I had male and female gynaecologiest all my life, in Germany you go for the pill and smear. test to them, not a GP or nurse. I never felt they are all predetors and only do the job to look at female bodies.

I teach my teen DD that the professional way a person is conduction him-/herself is the important bit, not what they have or not have in their underwear.

I guess there’s absolutely no need to talk to anyone about anything then really. A first birth is a big thing and you’ve got 9 months or so to think about it - I’m weird but i think it’s quite natural for the topic of birth to come up - especially for a first timer

*There's no need for her to discuss her birth plan with her friends though. Only she and her birth partner (plus HCPs) need know what's on there.

Does she actually hold the view that men should not train and practice as midwives? If not, I'm not sure why she, her friends, or anyone on this thread would be choosing to discuss that topic.

It's completely different and beside the point of someone expressing their own personal preference.*

Definitely okay to express a preference, although I've only ever been cared for by one male midwife. He was a student and it was after baby arrived, but I didn't mind, didn't even register that he was male if that makes sense, as long as they help deliver baby safely/care for us afterwards, I'm happy.
Anyway, it's always okay to ask for a female HCP, especially if it's what makes her feel most comfortable at such an important time.

@Whatwouldscullydo

If course she's allowed to choose who to consent to touching her when she's having her baby.

I'm.sure she's well aware that if things happen.outsode her control and an enemergency developes then things might change ajd they will deal with that if it comes up.

The idea that she shouldn't have a say at all even when things go right just because they may go wrong is the kind of bullshit attitude that leads to women being infantalised or not listened to in heakthcare.

This exactly.

@RoyalCorgi Your post brought me to tears. I briefly encountered that midwife (as a colleague) years ago when he was working at a different hospital. I told my husband at the time that something seemed off about him - I wish I had pursued it, but I had nothing but a gut feeling to go on. Heartbreaking for the women and children affected by his depravity.

The friend is being a sexist by not saying that. So it means a woman has no right to choose who comes near her when she is the most vulnerable? Your niece has every right to write it down as it is the time she should be most comfortable. But speaking from experience, when the time comes she might not have any other option.

I will tell you of my experience. I was induced and had a female doctor initially, but then her shift was over and a male took over. We had time when my baby's heart beat was dropping so I was taken in for emergency assisted delivery. It was a mixture of male and female and all I cared for was my baby and that she was safe. The male anesthetist was lovely and showed me pictures of his children in an attempt to keep me awake during the process. They all did their best to keep me at ease and comfortable and in the end left me with female nurses so that they could help me.

So tell her, when the time comes, all that matters would be that her baby is in safe hands and she would not mind a single bit if it is a female or a male doctor helping her.

if you prefer = ask!

I had both, could not have cared less at those times. I also had a very personal examination before one birth by 2 doctors (male), again did not care!

personal choice but in the throws of labour you just want to be pain free but anyone!

I didn't think about in advance but ended up with a trainee male GP delivering my baby and in the hazy memory I have, it turned out I wasn't bothered. (He was supervised by other hazy figures, mostly female midwives I believe 😊)

There are more female doctors so don’t think it’s the case that a doctor is more likely to be male. Stating a preference for routine care is not the same as an emergency situation, I think the vast majority of people appreciate that.

Isn't it more important to teach females that male medical staff is there to help us?

Of course! Of course it's down to women, who have often been subjected to years of low level sexual harassment (at best) by men to be 'taught' that just because they have a medical degree they're suddenly completely safe and we should have no reservations at all.

🤦🏼‍♀️

I feel sorry for male medical staff. Yes, the OP's niece has every right but I think we need to ask ourselves why we feel this way.

Well a lot of women will feel this way because they’ve been raped or sexually assaulted by a male (not rare at all unfortunately) and many others because they’ve simply had countless negative experiences with men not respecting their boundaries or treating them inappropriately over their lives 🤷‍♀️

Maybe we need to get annoyed at WHY countless women don’t feel comfortable feel males in an intimate space, not direct anger at said women for saying no.

Up to her! Her birth plan, her choice. I would add that my third baby was delivered at home by a male midwife and he was amazing. Definitely the best of the three births.

That was a nasty, unemphatic thing of the friend to say. Birth is for many a scary, intimate time and for some, part of coping is having other women for support.

I recommend birth plans be as simple as possible rather than the long every little thing often found online, because much of those include things that will mostly out of our hands. Focusing on the essential information that could affect the labour and the most important preferences for wellbeing makes it easier to talk about - I had a great conversation about mine with my last labour. If having a female midwife fits that for her, I'd say go for it. Something like "I'd prefer a female midwife whenever possible" is entirely understandable. In a non-emergency situation, that might involve waiting and most of us get that in an emergency, we may need whoever is available.

It was discussed after my spouse had really had kidney stones and was getting a procedure to check what his preferences were and he didn't have any, but I can imagine some men being uncomfortable enough getting a camera shoved up their dicks that they might prefer another guy doing it. I wouldn't call them sexist - they're not questioning the competency, it's just scary and more intimate than most other medical procedures.

Yes she's a bigot for only wanting a female midwife. It's no different to her only wanting a white doctor or only wanting a male plumber.

Might be odd, but I have no preference when it comes to health care professionals, but I would greatly prefer a woman plumber if it was easy to search for one. Might make me a bad person (I don't particularly think I'm a good one), but I find having a male stranger in my house if I'm by myself or just with my younger kids way more intimidating than if I'm in a hospital, but I've had a range of awesome to violent women HCPs and take my own support whenever I can (which I said on my last birth plan - 'I'm scared being here due to previous medical abuse', and listed a few things that helped me cope) so I'm equally nervous of all of them.

My sister was assigned a male midwife and asked (very, very politely) if she could possibly have a female as she would feel more comfortable (there is a valid and personal reason behind this!). You would have thought she had asked for them to take the male midwife out and burn him at the stake. It was taken as a personal affront when it really had absolutely nothing to do with him or his ability to do his job (this was explained by sister).
I had a great male midwife with me for a while during birth.