Male midwives - aibu

[Ikeasucks]

My 27 yr old niece is pregnant and we were discussing the coming birth - she said she would like to put female only midwife on her birthing plan but is worried how the staff, her friends etc will react as one “friend” told her she was being sexist and bigoted for taking that view. Aibu in thinking it’s perfectly fine and understandable for women to want another woman at such a time - it it’s possible

"Men don't have to ask fir male physicians if they are having intimate stuff done - because you can bet your bottom dollar they were getting a male to start with."

Well - that depends on whether it's a GP appointment. My father had prostate cancer - he did not want a female GP dealing with him at any point through that and he requested that he only see male GPs at the local surgery. They honoured that, even though the ratio of female: male GPs was higher on the female side.

Isn't it more important to teach females that male medical staff is there to help us?

No it isn’t. What’s important is the people receive medical care they feel comfortable with. If a woman wants to be cared for and treated by other women she has an absolute right to ask for that.

Of course she's not unreasonable, she's allowed to request that if that would make her more comfortable.

I have a past history of abuse and was debating whether or not to request females only. In the end I decided not to as I didn't want that taking over my life and affecting my relationships with professionals.
I had a male midwife during induction with DS1, I was apprehensive but honestly he was so much nicer than the women! He had me howling with laughter at a time when I was in a lot of pain and scared about a c section and it was very appreciated that he was trying to keep my spirits up. The female midwives weren't interested in keeping me calm, they mainly talked among themselves. Then I had a male anesthesiologist and a male surgeon. All were great, never felt uncomfortable or awkward for any reason. I was glad I didn't go ahead with the females only request but fully understand why some people wouldn't be okay with that.

She can choose who she feels comfortable with. She doesn't have to explain her reasons to anyone
I wouldn't be bothered, I have had experience of gynae investigations and I found the females were rough and unsympathetic whereas it was less painful with male consultants. Also I'm a nurse and I'm aware that a lot midwives have never gave birth so I know that you don't have to experience something to be empathetic and a good advocate for your patient.

@FTEngineerM

But they aren't being given a choice because there isn't one.

So in those scenarios wouldn’t they just refuse treatment? Like a PP has said they would.

If it were so traumatic for someone to have a male in the room, those feelings don’t suddenly disappear when the job role changes from midwife to consultant.

FWIW the most compassionate member of staff I experienced when I gave birth was the anaesthetist. He was outstanding, rushed to get me out of pain, change the medication to speed up pain relief and held my hand when my DP wasn’t allowed into theatre.

The whole event is intimate, and the reason you’re there in hospital is to be cared for with the best possible chance of everyone making it home. If someone doesn’t want any male around due to some past trauma it is understandable, if someone only wants the ‘lower ranking’ staff to be female and the ‘higher ranking’ ones are ok to be male then.. yes it does suggest a little gender bias.

It’s a risk benefit analysis though isn’t it?

If someone declines a male midwife for routine care they know a swap will be done and they will get a female midwife. Because I can promise you that on a labour ward you won’t have all the women in labour who say they don’t want a male midwife. So the decision has no detriment.

But in an emergency situation if the only person who can save your life is male you’re going to accept them. You might not like the fact they’re a man but you will put that aside to have your life saved.

I think that’s understandable.

The only time I cared that one of my HCPs was male was when I realised he was 6' 6 + and had hands the size of shovels. He's still referred to as 'Dr Shovel Hands' in our house

I couldn't have cared who was at the business end when I was in labour but this isn't an ingrown toenail - there are usually examinations etc and not all women are comfortable with men. I don't see it as sexist.

@unim

For me an obstetric consultant is quite different as you are already in an emergency-type situation with a lot more medical monitoring.

The whole point of vaginal birth is that it is a totally natural function with, ideally, limited intervention. You need to feel comfortable. Ideally lights should be low, you should feel able to move around or make noises, you should feel supported and safe. For me this was not in keeping with suddenly having an unknown man put his hand in my vagina to check progress and I don't think it's remotely unreasonable to feel that way.

If we had continuity of care and could get to know the same midwife during pregnancy that would be with you during childbirth, it might be different.

Great post. Just what I was coming on to say.

Obviously - does this really need to be said?? - if in an emergency situation you will take whoever comes and be thankful.

But midwives are there for the long haul, when you get started and when you might be a bit off your head with pain or hormones or emotions or drugs. It's a completely different scenario and so many women just wouldn't feel comfortable with a male midwife for that sort of situation. I know I wouldn't have, and I'm fortunate in not having any PTSD or a history of sexual abuse. I can only imagine the dismay or panic if a women who does, is suddenly confronted with a man who will be with her for hours when she's at her most vulnerable.

I do try to opt for professional women over men where I can, in fact. And that is entirely my prerogative.

I had 4 female midwives and they were all awful, unkind, uninterested, unsupportive

The one male midwife I had was amazing - they are health care professionals there to do a job, I do think it's a bit silly to refuse one sex over another when they all have the same training

Of course she can. Thankfully in Some parts of the U.K. we can still choose which sex we want to provide intimate care and delivering a baby is certainly very intimate. Ensure she uses the words female sex and not gender.

I was assigned two male midwives when I was induced (one being a junior) and they were also Spanish and French (London hospital). I queried if I could have a female one but was told they were short staffed and that was who was on the rota. By the time push came to shove, I couldn't have cared less what their gender was, as long as they were helping me. And you know what, they were utterly magnificent. They made me feel like a warrior woman, because they kept saying they had no idea themselves what the pain was like but they were in awe of how I was managing it. They stayed beyond their shift to see the baby being born and were as emotional as we were when she arrived! If I did it again and was offered another male midwife, I'd accept it like a shot.

Just came here to say that my female midwife was absolutely useless. I was in tears when the consultant finally came in to help me.
I couldn't give a hoot if the next one is male or female or anything inbetween, as long as I never see that first midwife again. I have no gender preference, I just want someone caring and kind.

Again it's not about competence.

This morning I had a colposcopy. I had to lie on a bed with my legs in stirrups. A HCP was seated between my legs and inserted a speculum. Then a camera with microscope was inserted to check my cervix.

That was a VERY intimate examination and I'm sure a male HCP would be able to conduct the examination and interpret the images.

I, however, in this non emergency situation, don't want a man sat with his head between my legs. Especially not one I'd have never met before. That's such a vulnerable position to be in no matter what.

Thankfully it was a female HCP (and a lovely one at that) but if it had been a male I'd have refused the test until a woman could be available to conduct the scan.

The examples provided of good male midwives are irrelevant. If she wants an adult female then that’s her choice.

Absolutely her choice. Also not necessarily the case that she wouldn't care at the time. I got asked if I minded a male student in the room. Said no, I did and would have minded. Obviously man preferable to mother or baby being hurt or worse so if male midwives were only ones available then yes, accept treatment. Fine to specify preference though.

I had multiple people check my cervix when I was induced. Some of them were men. After I gave birth a team of about 8 or so drs were present whilst they stitched my bum back together. Some of them were men. Lots of male nurses in the wards after, helping you care for your baby, walking in at any old time when you're feeding etc. It's no thing.

I think she has every right to ask but I'm guessing she won't care when the time comes and wont want to wait if only a male nurse/Dr is available

I wouldn’t want a male midwife either but wouldn’t mind a male obstetrician. I think it’s because the midwife relationship feels more intimate somehow, like I feel like the midwife is there to support me and guide me through the process whereas as an obstetrician is more there on a purely medical basis.

Definitely not unreasonable as it's her preference

Sadly, women have good reason for being suspicious about males.

I would decline a male midwife. I experienced horribly misogyny from two male HCPs when giving birth.

Your niece is perfectly reasonable and within her rights, and I think many if not most women would understand implicitly her desire for a female midwife.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4349549-Judge-is-sad-paedophile-wont-be-able-to-keep-his-job-as-a-midwife

I had a male midwife at one of my postnatal checks. Apparently there are 150 or so out of THIRTY THOUSAND so super unlikely she’d even get one. I almost always request female providers though.

Perfectly within her rights to request it! I had a male midwife for my second labour - he was amazing.

What absolutely blows my tiny brain is that there are people all over this thread saying that it is AWFUL to request a female midwife for what is probably one of the most vulnerable situations you will ever be in, but Mumsnet is famously populated by people who will fiercely argue that transwomen are still biological men and shouldn't be able to use the same toilet as them.

Pick a side! You can't have it both ways. Or is it just that you only have an issue when it makes you bristle personally?

I still think. that we need to work on why do females are not comfortable with male medical staff.

Obviously there are reasons behind asking for female staff, abuse is one of them. But I often feel there is a general issue with it and I really think. it is deeper ingrained in us female.

I think a lot has something to do with the view we have of our own bodies, not feeling comfortable being naked around other females in a changing room or even around our own children.

Isn't it. time to start thinking about this and working on changing it and then hopefully the idea. of female care only comes to an end and we judge nurses/midwives by their job not their sex/gender?

Totally her choice but a) there are very few of them b) I'm another one adding to the chorus of those saying that I had a male MW and found him great. He actually came in to talk me through breastfeeding. Initially I was bemused but then realised that the, say, 22 year old female MW would have as much lived experience so it's not a reason to decline imo.

Maybe we need to get annoyed at WHY countless women don’t feel comfortable feel males in an intimate space, not direct anger at said women for saying no.

Absolutely this!

Also, being okay with male doctors and not midwives isn't about any sort of seniority, it is about the specific type of care you are receiving. I had mostly male nurses during my only hospital stay and I didn't mind at all. But they weren't doing intimate care. If someone needs to examine my hand, ankle etc I don't care what sex they are. But when it comes to my vagina I'd absolutely prefer examinations to be done a woman.

@daisyjgrey

What absolutely blows my tiny brain is that there are people all over this thread saying that it is AWFUL to request a female midwife for what is probably one of the most vulnerable situations you will ever be in, but Mumsnet is famously populated by people who will fiercely argue that transwomen are still biological men and shouldn't be able to use the same toilet as them.

Pick a side! You can't have it both ways. Or is it just that you only have an issue when it makes you bristle personally?

This I agree. But people get confused between sex and gender and don’t appreciate how important it is to separate the two.