Male midwives - aibu

[Ikeasucks]

My 27 yr old niece is pregnant and we were discussing the coming birth - she said she would like to put female only midwife on her birthing plan but is worried how the staff, her friends etc will react as one “friend” told her she was being sexist and bigoted for taking that view. Aibu in thinking it’s perfectly fine and understandable for women to want another woman at such a time - it it’s possible

@TheWeatherWitch

Just out of interest. Would she insist on a female surgeon if she had to have a hysterectomy or a breast removed?

Or if she needed her appendix out would that be ok for a male surgeon because he has an appendix?

Or if she was involved in an accident and the paramedics arrived, would she refuse to be saved by a male?

Should men having prostate operations only be seen by men?

Not meaning to be goady, just trying to work out what the difference is.

To answer your question.

I had a vein removed from my leg - male surgeon. After surgery I saw a film of the type of surgery being done. Despite there being a groin incision I didn't realise I'd be on the table with no pants on and one leg raised in the air. If I had - female surgeon.

I'm having uterine surgery done soon privately - I'm looking for a female surgeon.

Breast surgery - if I could I'd prefer a female surgeon.

Anything else - im happy with what ever sex they are.

As a human adult im allowed to decide who touches parts of my body. That include intimate areas. As Pantasaurus says 'what's in my pants belongs only to me'

In an emergency im not going to refuse treatment because it's a man. In those situations preserving my life is more important. But where it's not an emergency, im going to choose.

@Evesgarden

Ah that old chestnut.. but women do bad things too...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/midwife-ronald-lock-struck-pregnant-women-southmead-hospital-bristol-oral-sex-good-their-health-a6989631.html

Here is another one - Ronald Lock 48 thought it would be a good idea to tell pregnant women that oral sex would give them absorb extra "protein'..

Yes, lets find the horrendous cases committed by men, and apply them to all men. Ronald Lock is Ronald Lock. He is not all men working with pregnant women.

@XenoBitch yours are straw man arguments. You are well aware of the reasons why women would prefer to have female midwives, female lactation consultants. To compare a female midwife without children to a male midwife is disingenuous- you full well know the reasons why it isn't the same.

And having breastfed two children I do think the best placed person to be a lactation consultant is a woman who has personally gone through it. Doesn't mean that others aren't empathetic or capable though. Although I definitely would not want a man in that situation. Don't pretend to not know the reasons why. And don't pretend that those of us who want female HCP's are accusing all men of being perverts. We have enough NAMALT on Mumsnet as it is.

“Just out of interest. Would she insist on a female surgeon if she had to have a hysterectomy or a breast removed?

Or if she needed her appendix out would that be ok for a male surgeon because he has an appendix?

Or if she was involved in an accident and the paramedics arrived, would she refuse to be saved by a male?

Should men having prostate operations only be seen by men?

Not meaning to be goady, just trying to work out what the difference is.“

Tbh, li think you’re being either goady or gobsmackingly stupid

I don’t blame her. I found giving birth the first time round (so right up until I needed an emergency section) incredibly uncomfortable and invasive. I lost count how many times I was “examined” by a new set of hands. I would not have appreciated it at all if it was a man, no matter how lovely/great at his job he was.

But, what I will say is with DD2, I needed an examination around 35 weeks because we were unsure if my waters were leaking. I’d just seen a male consultant and he performed the examination. It did make me feel uncomfortable, but I was so worried about the leaking waters, in all honesty I didn’t care that much when it came down to it (although there is a big difference between an examination and being in labour in terms of your mental state).

So I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a preference and it should be respected. However, it is important to keep your options open, even if it is for that 1% chance that he is the only midwife able to help you at that time in the hospital. It’s better to prepare for it potentially being a possibility rather than shutting it down entirely. But, of course, this should be a last resort situation.

I will also say those who have called it sexist need a reality check. Having a baby is probably one of the most exposing things a woman can ever go through. You’re physically exposed, mentally you’re pushed to your limit, your body is doing all these things you’ve never experienced before. I would rather walk over hot coals than prioritise someone who thinks I’m sexist over me having preferences when I am giving birth. A dented ego vs potential PTSD/PND isn’t even in the same league.

@Twizbe

I am curious. You might want a female surgeon, but when you are in an operating theatre, there are a fair few other people too... a minimum of 6 at least. Are you going to insist they are also female too? And if so, why? You will be under anaesthetic.

I think it's up to her, and she has the right to make that request, but a male midwife delivered my first baby and was much more compassionate than the female midwife who delivered the second. Also, at the fertility unit, the only consultant was male. Had I refused to see him due to his gender, I would not have been able to have those babies.

@XenoBitch do you struggle to understand when people feel differently to you in other situations, or is it only other women having different experiences and boundaries that you have problems with?

[quote StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind]@XenoBitch yours are straw man arguments. You are well aware of the reasons why women would prefer to have female midwives, female lactation consultants. To compare a female midwife without children to a male midwife is disingenuous- you full well know the reasons why it isn't the same.

And having breastfed two children I do think the best placed person to be a lactation consultant is a woman who has personally gone through it. Doesn't mean that others aren't empathetic or capable though. Although I definitely would not want a man in that situation. Don't pretend to not know the reasons why. And don't pretend that those of us who want female HCP's are accusing all men of being perverts. We have enough NAMALT on Mumsnet as it is. [/quote]
I have no issue with someone wanting a female -insert whatever HCP here-... none at all. I have asked for females HCPs myself.
I just take issue with the posters thinking that any male going into gynae etc must be some sort of perv.

[quote XenoBitch]@Twizbe

I am curious. You might want a female surgeon, but when you are in an operating theatre, there are a fair few other people too... a minimum of 6 at least. Are you going to insist they are also female too? And if so, why? You will be under anaesthetic.[/quote]
The surgeon will be the one digging about in my uterus. This surgery is performed by inserting something through my cervix. Again the person conducting the surgery will be head between my legs and up close with my vulva. I'll be totally unconscious - that's why I want a woman. I will be VERY vulnerable in that position and I want a woman doing it.

Anyone else in that room won't be head up my vulva will they?

This isn't to say I think all men are perverts or will take advantage of the situation. I'm not ashamed of my body either.

I don't want ANY man other than my husband getting that close to my vulva, that's my right.

I've had dental surgery performed by male dentists and have no issue with a man digging around my mouth.

But I question if it is not also important to teach that not all males are predators.

That absolutely is important. But it is also important to teach that you cannot tell who is a predator and who isn't by a single glance (often even close family and friends are shocked when they are caught). And if some people aren't comfortable having intimate care done by the opposite sex they have the right to request for a same sex HCP.

Note, though, it is the right to request not the right to have. So if there are no same sex doctors, nurses or carers available then you have to decide whether to accept opposite sex HCPs/carers or forgo care/treatment.

I just take issue with the posters thinking that any male going into gynae etc must be some sort of perv.

No, it isn't just that, because if it was, you wouldn't continually be throwing straw man arguments at posters like me who explained at least to some degree that I would request female HCP's for reasons of dignity and comfort- not for one second did I suggest that I think that all male midwives/obvs/gynaecologists or lactation consultants are perverts.

@Twizbe I understand. But sometimes, your surgeon (if you insisted on female) might get into difficulty and ask for assistance (that does happen a lot), and the surgeon they call on might be male.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

I just take issue with the posters thinking that any male going into gynae etc must be some sort of perv.

No, it isn't just that, because if it was, you wouldn't continually be throwing straw man arguments at posters like me who explained at least to some degree that I would request female HCP's for reasons of dignity and comfort- not for one second did I suggest that I think that all male midwives/obvs/gynaecologists or lactation consultants are perverts.

Other people did though.

One of my original fears of having male midwives/lactation specialists etc was from when I worked in hospitality. The amount of men who grabbed my boobs/bum, tried to kiss me, demand my phone number or, worse, try and wait for me after work was terrifying. Unfortunately it is just part of working in the service industry and being a woman. If you complained you were told to get on with it.
I have plenty of experience of men being inappropriate with my body and next to no experience of women being inappropriate with my body. Therefore I feel more comfortable with women around my body in that sense.
That's not saying that all men are inappropriate.

I am wary of horses. While I don't assume all horses will bite me, I've been bitten before and so I don't put myself in a position to be bitten again.

It's perfectly fine although DS2 was delivered by a very capable male paramedic. I asked him if he'd delivered a baby before, he said he'd delivered 8! I didn't even think about being naked from the waist down! I just wanted DS2 to be healthy.

@XenoBitch you also suggested that men go into these roles because of their passion- and I asked why their passion is more important than the feelings of the women they are treating. You've not really answered that.

You compared females without children to males. You know that it's disingenuous.

There really is no point in engaging in conversation with someone who willfully and deliberately misrepresents everything being said.
So fucking irritating.

And having breastfed two children I do think the best placed person to be a lactation consultant is a woman who has personally gone through it

Just to raise a point here, it is important to remember that just because a woman has been through breastfeeding doesn't mean she is necessarily the best person to help you. She may have found it easier than you or harder than you, she may not understand why you're having difficulties with it etc.
My lactation consultant hadn't had my experience of excessive milk production and just kept telling me what she did which didn't help.

[quote StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind]@XenoBitch you also suggested that men go into these roles because of their passion- and I asked why their passion is more important than the feelings of the women they are treating. You've not really answered that.

You compared females without children to males. You know that it's disingenuous. [/quote]
A lot of women don't care much for the sex of who is treating them. And then some do. Both should be catered for. I said in a pp, I have asked for female only too.
Male HCPs don't get offended if you say you don't want to see them, Anyone working in healthcare understands that the comfort of their patient is important. I have not said a single thing in this thread to indicate otherwise.

@XenoBitch

You're floundering.

Just to raise a point here, it is important to remember that just because a woman has been through breastfeeding doesn't mean she is necessarily the best person to help you. She may have found it easier than you or harder than you, she may not understand why you're having difficulties with it etc.
My lactation consultant hadn't had my experience of excessive milk production and just kept telling me what she did which didn't help.

No I agree with that too, I just also think that most people who have done it, even if it's gone relatively smoothly, understand the difficulties, the emotions, all of those things. I couldn't have imagined it myself until I'd done it, not properly. Again, it's a general thing, but thinking about breastfeeding supporters etc, it's the empathy and understanding of how it can be that draws people to it. I've had varied experiences of breastfeeding- very difficult second time with a tongue tied baby- I think most people who have done it are aware it's not plain sailing for a lot of people.

@Biancadelrioisback

And having breastfed two children I do think the best placed person to be a lactation consultant is a woman who has personally gone through it

Just to raise a point here, it is important to remember that just because a woman has been through breastfeeding doesn't mean she is necessarily the best person to help you. She may have found it easier than you or harder than you, she may not understand why you're having difficulties with it etc.
My lactation consultant hadn't had my experience of excessive milk production and just kept telling me what she did which didn't help.

Yep.. my sister had a lactation consultant who she described as an "absolute bitch". Was all "I did it, so you can" etc.

Male HCPs don't get offended if you say you don't want to see them, Anyone working in healthcare understands that the comfort of their patient is important.

You can say that for all of them, can you?

[quote XenoBitch]@Twizbe I understand. But sometimes, your surgeon (if you insisted on female) might get into difficulty and ask for assistance (that does happen a lot), and the surgeon they call on might be male.[/quote]
Perhaps. That would be classed as an emergency situation then wouldn't it.

I think everyone on here has said the same thing. Preference is female for x reason, but would accept male if no option or emergency.

Again, before surgery I can state my preference would be for a female surgeon. I hope that would be respected