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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be pissed the vicar wanted me dead?

141 replies

emmskie03 · 14/09/2021 23:29

I always knew that that paternal grandparents were not happy about my illegitimate birth (in the 80's). I've recently found out that my mother's vicar (CofE but fairly high church I guess) suggested she would be better off aborting.

I'm fuming. I don't know why but I'm am seriously angry. My OH suggested that there was conflict between my rage and my pro choice beliefs I.e. I said I'm pissed the vicar wanted me dead but he suggested this was a bit iffy in regard to abortion rights.

Am I unreasonable to think that the fact that my mother wanted me (and was pretty vulnerable) means it's sod all to do with that and everything to do with the fact that the vicar didn't like the non traditional parent set up so thought it would be better I didn't exist?

OP posts:

Iveputmyselfonthenaughtystep · 14/09/2021 23:33

I think supporting a woman who wants an abortion and suggesting an abortion to a woman who's turned to you for support are two different things and I don't find your feelings unreasonable though I can see the theoretical conflict your husband pointed out.
How on earth did you discover this?

SleepingStandingUp · 14/09/2021 23:34

Well it isn't about you being pro chocie, it's about you taking the Priests comments personally. So I don't think there's conflict. But I do think you're taking it too much to heart.

He didn't want baby Emmskie dead. He thought your mother would be better off not bringing an illegitimate child into the world, given he considered the conception a sin and also likely knew how hard keeping you would be for your Mom practically speaking.

Now whether he's entitled to an opinion depends on if your Mom asked or not, and ultimately she wasn't coerced into an abortion so it's just an opinion she chose to ignore.

What is your relationship like with you Dad? Could you be projecting some anger?

Fabpinky · 14/09/2021 23:37

Yes, bit dramatic

SoundBar · 14/09/2021 23:37

You're taking this piece of gossip way too personally.

What else is going on?

Shurl · 14/09/2021 23:38

Someone suggesting your mother should consider an abortion is not wanting you dead. Don't be silly.

If you really think that is the case, then yes your husband is correct

NoYOUbekind · 14/09/2021 23:40

Ach, a whole wheen of people wanted my mum to terminate her pregnancy with me, I can't get het up about that at all. Her life would have been exponentially easier if she hadn't got pregnant at 17. I was very much loved once I arrived.

TaraR2020 · 14/09/2021 23:41

I agree with @SleepingStandingUp and I don't know that I can comment on what the vicar wanted to happen personally because we don't have enough info.

Are you religious, op? Or are particularly anti-religion?

I completely get why you're so upset by this and maybe it was b&w disapproval on the vicar's part or maybe it was a clumsy and misguided attempt at support, I don't know. But you're in your rights to be upset by it.

The fact that you've taken it so hard though suggests to me there's more to it and that you have strong feelings regarding organised religion.
.

Babdoc · 14/09/2021 23:42

OP, the vicar is presumably not being given the chance to tell her/his side of the story.
It may be that they were simply reassuring your mother that they didn’t disapprove of abortion, and that they wouldn’t judge her if she chose to terminate the pregnancy.
I can’t imagine any vicar telling any parishioner that their baby would be better off dead.
They are trained in pastoral care, and have a lot of experience dealing with life crises among their congregation.
You are understandably outraged at the thought of termination, as it is the future “you” they were referring to - but it means you cannot really be objective about it.
Your mum needed to consider all her options - and credit to the vicar for being able to say that termination was one of them, and let her discuss it.

EmergencyHydrangea · 14/09/2021 23:44

You can only think he wanted you dead if you think abortion is killing a baby

Palavah · 14/09/2021 23:51

If you're fuming about something a vicar said 40 years ago before you were born then I think you're projecting something else and would benefit from working out what you're actually worried about.

godmum56 · 14/09/2021 23:57

@Babdoc

OP, the vicar is presumably not being given the chance to tell her/his side of the story. It may be that they were simply reassuring your mother that they didn’t disapprove of abortion, and that they wouldn’t judge her if she chose to terminate the pregnancy. I can’t imagine any vicar telling any parishioner that their baby would be better off dead. They are trained in pastoral care, and have a lot of experience dealing with life crises among their congregation. You are understandably outraged at the thought of termination, as it is the future “you” they were referring to - but it means you cannot really be objective about it. Your mum needed to consider all her options - and credit to the vicar for being able to say that termination was one of them, and let her discuss it.

^^ this. I absolutely get how hurt and shocked you must be but If you have posted all you know, there are huge gaps in the story....like how far pregnant was your Mum, what were her fears and feelings, what did the vicar ACTUALLY say, who told you the story, do they have any kind of agenda, how many people has the story gone through before it got to you..... And yes, greatly as i sympathise, objectively IMO its not really reasonable to say that you are absolutely pro choice unless its you who was the baby......

StarryStarrySocks · 15/09/2021 00:03

Good Lord. You're in your 40s (or almost) and presumably you've never met the vicar who allegedly had this view. It's a strange thing to get emotional about.

Squeakycatflap · 15/09/2021 00:04

Just find your nearest vicar and lamp him one. He (she?) may not understand but God will.

SarahAndQuack · 15/09/2021 00:05

What has him being a vicar got to do with it?

The C of E as a whole has an anti-abortion stance but not all C of E vicars were personally anti-abortion even in the 1980s, just as not all C of E vicars were personally opposed to women priests.

The whole situation obviously stirs up some strong emotion for you which I can understand, but I think you're not being logical to fix on this particular set of details as the thing that upsets you.

SarahAndQuack · 15/09/2021 00:05

@Squeakycatflap

Just find your nearest vicar and lamp him one. He (she?) may not understand but God will.

EmergencyHydrangea · 15/09/2021 00:05

Also, forty years ago vicars would be suggesting adoption not abortion if they didn't approve of the family set up

AtomHeartMotherOfGod · 15/09/2021 00:08

YABU. You don't know anything about the conversation that happened back then, or the circumstances your mum came to him in.

Also, preventing your life isn't quite the same as 'wishing you dead'.

I'm sorry you're really upset though; it can't have been nice to find out. I hope though that he believed he was acting in your mum's best interests, and not just doing what the church wants.

me4real · 15/09/2021 00:19

My OH suggested that there was conflict between my rage and my pro choice beliefs I.e. I said I'm pissed the vicar wanted me dead but he suggested this was a bit iffy in regard to abortion rights.

What a weird and unsuupportive attitude for your 'partner' to have @emmskie03 . You can be pro-choice but still not like the idea that someone thought you should be aborted.

I don't see why else a vicar would say it IDK. Unless he was some sort of weird progressive liberal feminist vicar that was militantly pro-abortion and there was a career he thought your mum should be focussing on instead, but that sounds unlikely.

His attitude sounds bizarre for sure. I think it'dve been pretty backwards by the 80s (I was born in 77 so was around then) for someone to be that bothered about someone having a child out of wedlock. And what an odd thing for a vicar to suggest someone have an abortion, in those days.

Who told you this? What did the person who told you this hope to achieve?

Was it your mum? If so her point was maybe to emphasize how much she wanted you and was determined to have you whatever people said. xxx

NiceGerbil · 15/09/2021 00:20

How old was your mum?
Did she seek his advice? Or her parents made her talk to him? If so could they have been a big driver in what he said?
How far along was she when he said that?

I mean my initial comment that I deleted just said well he's a nasty bastard.

There's a lot of factors here and my total guess is that the conversation will have been instigated by her parents who had already pressed their view.

He didn't want YOU dead. I mean I thought you meant when you were growing up. That interpretation is incorrect and I think maybe it's hit you so hard because of your GPS and the situation of your mum at the time.

Sacreblue · 15/09/2021 00:23

Pro-choice means just that: pro-choice : that a woman has the right to a choice, whatever that choice is, including abortion, adoption or being a mother raising a child.

Any and all people involved or not can have an opinion but imo do not have the right to make that choice for the woman.

What others thought or said to your mother she retained that choice and chose to have and raise you herself.

I see zero conflict in your rage that an outside party tried to influence your mother’s choice and your pro-choice beliefs.

You believe in the right of choice, and are only angry that an outsider tried to influence that very personal, very difficult choice - a choice which would affect your parents - your mother most - and not, in any way, that outsider.

You believe in choice, your anger is that someone may have tried to take that choice away from your mother.

I see no conflict in your anger or beliefs.

timeisnotaline · 15/09/2021 00:27

Huge issues with your dh conflating a man in a relative position of power pushing abortion on a woman with being ‘pro choice’. Pro choice is for the mother, not for other men to impose their opinions on women.

WomanStanleyWoman · 15/09/2021 00:34

Interesting that he works for an institution that calls abortion a sin, but is happy to advocate it when he decides the sin of sex before marriage is worse. Tells you all you need to know about the Church of England.

Driftingblue · 15/09/2021 00:35

You say nothing about whether or not your mother was actually in a real position to be a parent. Had she finished school? Was she gainfully employee? Did she have secure housing? Was your father a good man who treated her well?

Perhaps the vicar was worried about your mother and not marital status.

NiceGerbil · 15/09/2021 00:37

In the end. Hard I know

Try to focus on how strong your mother was, in the face of such adversity.

Rather than being upset (I mean lingering on it) by those who did not support her.

She sounds amazing.

That's your focus :)

prh47bridge · 15/09/2021 00:39

@EmergencyHydrangea

Also, forty years ago vicars would be suggesting adoption not abortion if they didn't approve of the family set up

This. The Anglican Church was, and still is, against abortion whilst recognising that there are limited conditions in which it may be morally preferable to any of the alternatives. It is, of course, possible that the vicar went against church policy. But there is a huge amount we don't know, including exactly what he said and the circumstances in which he said it. Those saying he was imposing his opinion are making huge assumptions. Maybe he was but we cannot say that for sure on the limited information we've got. And, whatever he was doing, saying that he "wanted you dead" is an extreme interpretation.

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