To be pissed the vicar wanted me dead?

[emmskie03]

I always knew that that paternal grandparents were not happy about my illegitimate birth (in the 80's). I've recently found out that my mother's vicar (CofE but fairly high church I guess) suggested she would be better off aborting.

I'm fuming. I don't know why but I'm am seriously angry. My OH suggested that there was conflict between my rage and my pro choice beliefs I.e. I said I'm pissed the vicar wanted me dead but he suggested this was a bit iffy in regard to abortion rights.

Am I unreasonable to think that the fact that my mother wanted me (and was pretty vulnerable) means it's sod all to do with that and everything to do with the fact that the vicar didn't like the non traditional parent set up so thought it would be better I didn't exist?

I think it's a bit extreme to say the vicar wanted you dead.

At the time they don't picture a human being 30 years later with a life and feelings. They picture the pregnant woman and the difficulties at the time she'd face being an unmarried mother. Abortions are about the mother, not the fetus, don't take it personally

First, you have to remember that the vicar did not want YOU dead. He wanted your mother to have a choice. At that point, YOU did not exist. There would have been no heart, no brain, no central nervous system, nothing that could have been YOU. This was not personal, at all. How could it have been? There was no person for it to have been about. He was supporting your mother, and letting her know that she had a choice. The fact that he acknowledged the difficulty of rearing a child alone as valid is actually a good thing. I would imagine that if you asked him if he thought you would be better off dead NOW, he would be appalled. NOW, you are a person.

My mother's obstetrician actually pushed her to have an abortion when she became pregnant with me. He did not think that she could safely carry to term. She did, but it has never occurred to me to be angry at him about that. He was giving her the best advice that he had, for her situation.

Sounds to me like he was a vicar who actually listened to your mum when she wanted some counsel on what to do. Presumably the person who told you wasn't actually in the room either, so who knows what might be behind the way they interpreted what they heard and how many people that information has passed through by then.

Your mum might have told him that your GPs were furious and might throw her out. Back then she'd have been without options if they did. Maybe he talked through her options or maybe she mentioned abortion and he said that he wouldn't judge her, or that yes, it might be a way out of her situation. We don't know, you don't know, and the person who kindly told you this stuff doesn't either.

You have absolutely no reason to be furious with someone you don't know, and with absolutely no factual information behind the story.

Honestly you are taking this to far to heart .if you pro choice then what you are saying doesn't make sense
Someone told your mother another option that was it an option. My granddad suggested my 19 year old mum had an abortion in 1970 .because my parents weren't married but they said no and my grandfather adored me to the day he died me in my early 40s him late 80 s .it was just an option he suggested nothing else .

If you're pissed, perhaps you'd be better off waiting until you're sober???

@PumpkinsGalore

If you're pissed, perhaps you'd be better off waiting until you're sober???

🤣😂

I think it would be difficult to be pro-choice without believing abortion could ever, in any situation, be the best choice. And if you believe that it could be the best choice in some situations, then I don't understand why you'd find it objectionable for someone to express that view to someone who sounds like she wasn't in a great situation to raise a child.

How old was your mother at the time?
What were the circumstances of your birth? Was she able to be independent? Did she rely on her parents for support? Did your birth impact her opportunities (such as going to university, etc.)? There are plenty of legitimate reasons why it might not be ideal for a young woman to have a baby at a certain time in her life.

How is is right for you to be pro-choice but not the vicar? Are vicars meant to be pro-life? But then don't women get hot under the collar at religions that preach abortion is a sin? The church can't win.

Just get on with your life. This is such a pointless thing to waste your time and energy on. I could understand your ongoing rage if your mother had aborted you, but she didn't did she?

I could understand your ongoing rage if your mother had aborted you

@Porridgealert

How is is right for you to be pro-choice but not the vicar? Are vicars meant to be pro-life? But then don't women get hot under the collar at religions that preach abortion is a sin? The church can't win.

Because another woman’s baby is not subject to the vicars choice. It is not pro choice for men to choose for women- I’m assuming a vicar back then was male although could be wrong. The vicar would be pro-choice if they said the mum should decide to do whatever they want to, or if the vicar were female and pregnant then it would be pro choice for them to have the say over their own body and baby.

I don’t think suggesting that someone a woman have an abortion is the same as wanting someone dead. Much as I don’t think it’s any person’s place to suggest a woman should have an abortion unless she’s already raised it, it’s not the same as wishing death on an existing person. At the time the abortion was suggested you didn’t yet exist as a person, so there was nothing personal about it.

That said it’s not a nice thing for you to be contemplating at this time and it’s fair that you have complicated feelings about it. I don’t think anyone would love to know that this was the advice their parent had received while pregnant, so I don’t blame you at all for being upset

I agree with your dp. Unless your mother was pressured or coerced to have abortion, a suggestion or discussion of the option of abortion is reasonable.

Yes, you are alive now and glad to be. That's the same for almost every aborted fetus though isn't it? If things had been different and they had been born, they'd feel like you. And same for every pregnancy prevented through conception. I am 100% pro choice and see no problem with admitting this. Fact is, things weren't different so they aren't here, that's just the way it has to be.

You say you are pro choice - so every time you say "a woman should have the choice of aborting" you are really saying " that woman's baby should be dead "......really ? Because that is what your OP is saying . Someone , 40 years ago, suggested to a woman ( your mother) that she might consider abortion. And now you've translated that into "he wanted me dead". It's a pretty dramatic stance to take !

If he said that ( and how do you know that ) all he was saying was that she might be better off having an abortion. NOT that he wanted YOU dead at all. You need to rethink your stance on abortion if you are taking this so personally .

@Porridgealert

How is is right for you to be pro-choice but not the vicar? Are vicars meant to be pro-life? But then don't women get hot under the collar at religions that preach abortion is a sin? The church can't win.

This

The Church has dealt with pregnant non-married women for centuries. Sometimes being very helpful, in a few cases I personally know, and sometimes not.

The vicar would be pro-choice if they said the mum should decide to do whatever they want to, or if the vicar were female and pregnant then it would be pro choice for them to have the say over their own body and baby.

He'd be a bloody useless vicar if "do whatever you think is best" was his answer to every moral quandary put to him. Of course she has the right to make her own decision, and she ultimately did (rejecting his advice in the process). But offering an asked-for opinion on someone else's major life choice is in no way taking the choice away from that person. If a friend asks me whether I think she should marry her boyfriend and I truthfully say "No, I don't think you'll be happy with him because he's a serial cheater," that's not me being anti-marriage. It's also not me being anti-her-choice-about-marriage. It's just me offering my opinion in a situation where it's perfectly appropriate for me to do so.

He'd be thinking 'What's best for the young woman?' and showing her that termination was a valid choice.

The vicar didn't know you, he knew your mother. He tried to show lovingkindness to her, in her position, without judging. And see, you're here and everything is ok.

@EmergencyHydrangea

You can only think he wanted you dead if you think abortion is killing a baby

This

I am a similar age and have a similar background story. I imagine the vicar maybe thought the option was best for your mum. But she didn't chose that and here you are. Your response to this news has nothing to do with your pro choice stance IMO

I do think there's a conflict.

You are pro choice, but also think that someone who talks about that choice with a woman 'wants the baby dead'.

I, very much doubt your mother went to discuss with a vicar and his response was 'get an abortion and kill that baby immediately' or 'oh my god, that baby will be the end of humanity you must kill it now' or that it was about you personally.

Fact is, for some women aborting is the best choice. We have no idea what situation was presented. And more likely he was saying 'if you really feel you can't do this abortion is a valid choice/ might be for the best'

Doesn't sound like he tried to force her or tell her she must abort.

Do you know this vicar now? Is he still alive.

When women here post about pregnancy choices or are in the early stages of pregnancy with a terrible dangerous relationship or very young seeking advice, and posters (knowing far less about the situation than that vicar probably did), advise the op to consider an abortion, do they just want the baby dead? Or are they encouraging the op to think about their choices.

Your mother may have wanted you, but unfortunately that doesn't always mean having the baby is right for everyone. Some women choose abortion, even if they would have preferred to keep the baby. Its still a valid choice and 9ne that can be discussed.

And how, likely, is that your mum would ever tell you that abortion was something she considered? Even if it was for a second.

She obviously didn't take what he said on board.

It had nothing to do with your mother's vicar.

I also think it unlikely that a church minister would recommend an abortion though he would support anybody who had one. High church CofE priests were generally more broadminded than the middle or evangelical wings, if you look at their history of ministry in very poor areas you will see that. Therefore I think you have been misinformed about that, it was a remark taken out of context or there was a misunderstanding over what he said.

In the 1980s lots of people had children out of wedlock, lived together before or instead of marriage and terminated pregnancies (which was legal). I'm over 70 and remember that period well. It wasn't the 1950s.

What is important is that your mother had and kept you. Good for her.

@timeisnotaline
"Because another woman’s baby is not subject to the vicars choice. It is not pro choice for men to choose for women- I’m assuming a vicar back then was male although could be wrong. The vicar would be pro-choice if they said the mum should decide to do whatever they want to, or if the vicar were female and pregnant then it would be pro choice for them to have the say over their own body and baby."

The vicar didn't choose for anyone. If he had, the op wouldn't be here. He gave his opinion. He didn't coerce the ops mother. If, however, he inserted himself into the conversation at the mother's in-laws behest and without the mother's invitation, I think that would be rude.
Hiwever, in general, men are allowed to give opinions about babies. If I were considering an abortion, I would consult with the father, I'd have the final say, but the father is just as invested in his child as I am. As women, how can we complain about men not pulling their weight with childcare if we don't think they even had the right to be part of the decision for it to be born in the first place.

I think you're extrapolating way beyond what is reasonable, as others have implied.

Your mother's vicar may have had your mother's best interests at heart, he may have had your grandparents' best interests at heart, he may have thought he was being supportive by being pro-choice and not realised that your mum was determined to have you.

At no point was his comment directed personally to YOU, as he did not know YOU, you were a bundle of cells at the time, not a person.

If he'd suggested smothering you at birth, or leaving you in a bin/on a step, then you'd have more reason to be vexed - but as things stand, no.

In the 1980s lots of people had children out of wedlock, lived together before or instead of marriage and terminated pregnancies (which was legal). I'm over 70 and remember that period well. It wasn't the 1950s

Not sure I would agree with that. 2 of my aunties got pregnant out of wedlock in the 80s. One got married (at 16) to avoid the stigma and one didn't. The one that didn't did get a lot of judgement from people who knew and also didn't live with the father as she didn't want to get married.

Luckily, my grandparents stood by her and her son. But alot of what was said really impacted my auntie.

My own mother marriage broke up in 1984, leaving her a single parent. I still remember remarks made by teachers, and parents of children I went to school with.

It certainly, wasn't common place and I was the only one in my friendship group whose parents weren't married. I don't actually recall another child that I knew, at all, whose parents werent married. Plenty of then miserably, but still married.