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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be pissed the vicar wanted me dead?

141 replies

emmskie03 · 14/09/2021 23:29

I always knew that that paternal grandparents were not happy about my illegitimate birth (in the 80's). I've recently found out that my mother's vicar (CofE but fairly high church I guess) suggested she would be better off aborting.

I'm fuming. I don't know why but I'm am seriously angry. My OH suggested that there was conflict between my rage and my pro choice beliefs I.e. I said I'm pissed the vicar wanted me dead but he suggested this was a bit iffy in regard to abortion rights.

Am I unreasonable to think that the fact that my mother wanted me (and was pretty vulnerable) means it's sod all to do with that and everything to do with the fact that the vicar didn't like the non traditional parent set up so thought it would be better I didn't exist?

OP posts:
Geamhradh · 15/09/2021 07:20

And what in the name of fuck have the vicar's parents got to do with it? Confused

Walkingalot · 15/09/2021 07:23

Your way of thinking means that there is an awful lot of people on this planet that probably had someone wish them dead at some point! Most of us will never know as it's not something generally talked about. In your case it's a third party, not even your DM.
The vicar didn't know you, it obviously didn't happen (you are here) so why so angry? Is there more to it that you haven't shared here?

LukeEvansWife · 15/09/2021 07:23

He didn’t want you dead. That is over dramatic.

As a teen in the 1980s, most young girls would have had abortion suggested to them as there wasn’t the support or moral acceptance that there is now.

And yes, if you are pro choice, you have to accept that people are entitled to have the option suggested to them

Bluetrews25 · 15/09/2021 07:26

Was the vicar your father?

LukeEvansWife · 15/09/2021 07:28

I'd be bloody angry too. Regardless of religious beliefs or how his parents raised him it's a nasty thing to think let alone say out loud.

Wow. What have the vicar’s parents got to do with it. And why is it a nasty thing to think or say? Young woman gets pregnant, she has a right to have the options presented to her. He didn’t march OP’s mother down to the abortion clinic!

sandgrown · 15/09/2021 07:29

My mum came from a strict Catholic family . In the 1950s I was her second illegitimate child and mixed race too. I am sure a some of her family wished I didn’t exist. Her aunt never spoke to her again but my mum was a strong woman. Let it go and live your best life. Maybe the vicar was offering your mum a choice without disapproval.

Truthlikeness · 15/09/2021 07:36

My mum had me at 17 in the 1970s, after a hastily arranged marriage. I've always known if I was in the same position I would have aborted me. That doesn't mean I wish I'd never born, simply that, that's the choice I would have made at that age. As it happens I had a very good childhood and loving parents (they stayed together).

C8H10N4O2 · 15/09/2021 07:41

I've recently found out that my mother's vicar (CofE but fairly high church I guess) suggested she would be better off aborting

Was this conversation with a young and vulnerable underage girl in the 80s, an adult capable of supporting herself in the 80s, after you were born? There isn't enough info here and from your OP you don't seem to have the vicar's version of events, just something second hand.

There is also an inconsistency between being pro choice and "the vicar tried to kill me". Surely you see that?

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 15/09/2021 07:43

So a vicar said that he thought it wasn't such a terrible sin and it wouldn't be murder if a woman were to choose a termination in some circumstances? Possibly giving many religious women the reassurance that they wouldn't go to Hell if they took that option at a time where there was loads in the press about restricting availability even more and reducing time limits?

What an evil bastard. How dare a man be so compassionate towards women.

honeylulu · 15/09/2021 07:44

Other posters have hit on two issues that help me see your point of view.

Firstly, the seeming hypocrisy of the vicar's view that your mother should terminate. (I say "seeming" because I do not know how he expressed his view and reasoning and he may have made the suggestion in an open minded and caring way, though I somewhat doubt it.) I was a regular churchgoer in my youth and one of my friends got pregnant age 18 - not married, no boyfriend, still living with parents - and decided to keep the baby. This was the early 1990s. I was really shocked to overhear one of the church elders (male) quite vehemently expressing the view that "she should have got rid of it quietly and not brought shame on her parents like that". It certainly wasn't motivated by being pro-choice or concern for her or her parents welfare - her parents were really supportive - but rather a case of "she has sinned but as long as she hides her sin so everything looks OK on the surface I'll ignore the moral dilemma that most Christians would have". She had the baby and tragically he died of cot death at a few months old. I couldn't stop wondering if the elder felt guilty about what he'd said or if he just thought "good".

The other point a PP has mentioned is men with power and influence pressurising a girl/woman to have a termination she does not want. Along the lines of "abortion is easily available so you can just go and get one". Just as women can be co-erced to have sex by men, I do think it isn't terribly unusual for women to be co-erced into having terminations by men particularly if they are vulnerable in some way. I am hugely pro-choice by the way, but it should be the woman's choice. I may be projecting because of the experiences of my friend above, and other acquaintances who had terminations because their partners threatened to make their lives a misery if they didn't.

OP, your fury sounds very emotive and I think it is stopping you seeing straight. If you are pro-choice, there is a disconnect with that view. The vicar didn't want "you" dead because he didn't know "you"/who you would become. He thought a termination was best and expressed that opinion. We don't know the reasons for that. They might have been loving and caring or they might have been pompous and hypocritical (I suspect the latter and if that was the case I would feel angry and disgusted too).

Hekatestorch · 15/09/2021 07:44

@chocolateorangeinhaler

I'd be bloody angry too. Regardless of religious beliefs or how his parents raised him it's a nasty thing to think let alone say out loud.

Another example of why all religions should be seen as what they are -bullying controlling cults- and all banned. They offer no benefits to modern civilization.

So you are prolife then?
Droite · 15/09/2021 07:46

@EmergencyHydrangea

Also, forty years ago vicars would be suggesting adoption not abortion if they didn't approve of the family set up
Weird generalisation. Abortion was legalised in 1967, you can't claim that no vicar could have suggested it 13 years later.
SoloISland · 15/09/2021 07:47

@Fabpinky

Yes, bit dramatic
Agree totally. OP needs to get in touch with reality rather than melodrama. There was no ME involved and you can have no idea what your mother actually said to the vicar.

What a terrible accusation to make against anyone.. Shameful of you frankly

My first thought even before I read your post was... POOR VICAR; who would be a vicar... I mean REALLY..

SoloISland · 15/09/2021 07:50

@Hattie765

Sorry hon but it sounds as if you really don't have enough going on in your life ATM so you're making up a bit of drama. This is a ridiculous thing to be upset by.
Agree. I think the correct term is drama queen.. In spades..
SoloISland · 15/09/2021 07:58

@chocolateorangeinhaler

I'd be bloody angry too. Regardless of religious beliefs or how his parents raised him it's a nasty thing to think let alone say out loud.

Another example of why all religions should be seen as what they are -bullying controlling cults- and all banned. They offer no benefits to modern civilization.

Praying for you. Who hurt you? Not Jesus Christ, Son of God Saviour...

Yes I am a Christian who lives her faith . Never a bullying word or act. ABUSE of religion is NOT faith.

And I do not know any real faith church that fits your description. And I am very old and have had a tough life. Always there have been good folk of true faith to help and support.

I am not staying on the forum today but if you need to talk I am here for you.

Blessings and peace

Erictheavocado · 15/09/2021 08:13

Well OP, you do sound very angry but I think that is possibly misplaced.
I find it hard to imagine a vicar suggesting abortion. I CAN imagine one supporting, or offering support to a vulnerable parishioner who has said they are considering it.

Given the lack of information you have given, I do wonder how you discovered this? Because it sounds as though the information is second hand or hearsay. Unless it came direct from your mother, it is unlikely that whoever told you was in the room to hear the conversation. Or, knowing your GPS were against the pregnancy, is it possible that they spoke to their vicar about it and conveniently misreported his response?
There are so many possibilities here and you will possibly never know the exact truth, especially as we are now at least 31 years down the line and people's memories do fade.

As pps have said, whatever the truth, YOU were not the target of any comments as at that time they were discussing an abstract idea of a child, not an actual child, not YOU.
You say you are pro-choice - maybe you are conflicted and the anger is because of that.
Flowers

LynetteScavo · 15/09/2021 08:15

So someone you don't know suggested to your mother there might be another way forward than continuing with her pregnancy, and you take that as THE VICAR WANTED ME DEAD. You seem to be taking this very personally.

Have you ever thought someone might be best off not continuing with a pregnancy? If they went ahead and had the baby, so you consider yourself to wish that baby/child/eventually adult dead?

Your head seems quite confused.

ittakes2 · 15/09/2021 08:20

People can't help how they feel - but it is surprising you feel very so angry about something so far in the past - how does it affect you now? Your mum clearly stood up for what she wanted - more respect and love going her way to overshadow your anger at a man who is possibly deceased? I am guessing zillions of people's parent/s once considered an abortion and decided not to do it for whatever reason.
But as I said earlier - people can't help how they feel so you didn't choose to feel anger - but you can choose now to decide what to do about it and how to process it.

lottiegarbanzo · 15/09/2021 08:20

There is a world of difference between a wanted pregnancy and an unwanted one. That is why, as a mother, I am firmly pro-choice. As a mother I know how much work, time, care and competence goes into bringing up a child and recognise that people who really don't have those qualities at a particular time in their lives, might reasonably choose not to have a child. I am also aware that it is very rare for a woman to give up her baby voluntarily once born. So, a decision to proceed with a pregnancy is, almost always, an 18 year+ commitment to bringing up a child.

A real child and a notional child are very different entities. This is why ideas, feelings and arguments about contraception, abortion and notional babies, are very, very different form ideas and feelings about real people who exist in the world.

What I read in your OP is that you came from a wanted pregnancy.

I read you saying that what is angering you is that a woman with a wanted pregnancy, who was vulnerable and seeking guidance, was coerced towards abortion for someone else's convenience. My take on it is that it is that coercion, of a vulnerable woman, by a powerful man, that is, rightly, angering you.

If your mum had had an abortion because she had an unwanted pregnancy - and maybe she did at another time - that would have been her choice.

I think you are annoyed with your DH because he appears to be dismissing your thoughts and feelings and telling you he knows best - much like that vicar did to your mum.

He appears to be more interested in playing games and scoring points in an argument, than in listening to you and your feelings. He is trying to tell you what you think and feel. Playing at being a psychoanalyst. Only thing is, real psychoanalysts do not tell what you think and feel. They listen and support you as you work through your own feelings.

DynamoKev · 15/09/2021 08:23

Pissed=drunk

LukeEvansWife · 15/09/2021 08:27

And there was a lot of shame about young pregnancies in the 80s. There were two girls who got pregnant and kept the babies but they had ‘rough’ families (not snobbery, but the kind of families that MN thinks don’t exist - convinced that a baby was a key to getting benefits and housing)

So

LukeEvansWife · 15/09/2021 08:28

Coercing? Wow,

Your DH is absolutely right -you seem to be pro choice except when it came to your mother

LukeEvansWife · 15/09/2021 08:30

my mother's vicar (CofE but fairly high church I guess) suggested she would be better off aborting.

Suggested. Not coerced or forced. And it clearly wasn’t coercive enough for your mum to have gone along with it.

EmeraldRaine · 15/09/2021 08:32

Suggesting a young vulnerable woman consider an abortion isn't the same as wanting a person dead.

To be frank, a conversation that took place between your mother and her confidante when you weren't even born is absolutely none of your business.

LukeEvansWife · 15/09/2021 08:33

And your mother did make a choice. She chose to keep you. The system works.:..