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Original poster

To wish people would stop saying childless

278 replies

Moolihooli · 14/09/2021 00:17

Watching loose women today, Katie Piper - not for the first time - used “childless” in reference to women without children.

Previously she has also said that she dreads employers who are childless because they lack the empathy for women with child care needs.

I wish people would stop using “childless” as a description for people who are not parents.

OP posts:
ManifestDestinee · 14/09/2021 19:41

Because it’s how it makes me feel and I won’t apologise for it. I don’t give a flying crap if lots of people have come on here and said it means X, it makes me feel like Y. That should be enough for you to understand

I understand. But you must understand that your personal feelings on a word don't actually change the meaning of the word, and have no bearing at all on other people's usage of the word.

ManifestDestinee · 14/09/2021 19:42

I like having different terms for the two rather than lumping everyone into one group as childless (or childfree) because they’re very different experiences

They may be entirely different experiences...of the same state. Childless is a factual description of all people without children.

Cam22 · 14/09/2021 19:54

People who do this are clearly unable to differentiate between people who CHOOSE not to have children. The word they are looking for is childfree.

In addition, I think it’s actually quite cruel to refer to people who wanted to have children but could not as childless.

Cam22 · 14/09/2021 19:56

…not to have children and those who found themselves unable to.

nosyupnorth · 14/09/2021 20:10

I agree sayign people 'without children' is a perfectly straightforward way of conveying the situation without getting into any matters of opinion the way 'childfree' connotes not wanting children and 'childless' suggests that not having children is deficient both of which aren't necessarily relevant and aren't appropriate when you don't know that person's situation.

MorriseysGladioli · 14/09/2021 20:28

So which am I, would you judge, without wanting to offend me?

ManifestDestinee · 14/09/2021 20:35

@Cam22

People who do this are clearly unable to differentiate between people who CHOOSE not to have children. The word they are looking for is childfree.

In addition, I think it’s actually quite cruel to refer to people who wanted to have children but could not as childless.

We are ALL unable to differentiate without asking extremely personal questions, fgs!

You think it wouldn't be cruel to grill them on whether they want children or not? It's only cruel to call someone childless when you insist on making that a negative term instead of a simply factual one.

NoBetterthanSheShouldBe · 15/09/2021 07:32

I am childfree because my offspring are grown up and independent. They are no longer children. My own mother is in the same happy position.

I would imagine bereaved parents would find that term hugely offensive though, and never use it.

I don’t think childless is an offensive term but it’s not one I hear or see much. In the context of differentiating those who have never been parents it seems as good a word as any.

DrSbaitso · 15/09/2021 08:21

I didn’t want children for a long time and still disliked "childfree". I didn't have anything against children and didn't wish to insult them, as that term implies doing. I always liked them. I just didn't want to make the life change of having my own.

It doesn't offend me personally if someone describes themselves as "childfree". But I just don't like the implied insult to children as a demographic. I don't feel insulted, but I feel like children are being. We would feel differently if single people were calling themselves "manfree" or "womanfree"...

I wasn't bothered about "childless" when I didn't have a child. Just seemed accurate. But I can see why some people dislike it, so I go with "people who don't have children".

UsedUpUsername · 15/09/2021 08:50

We would feel differently if single people were calling themselves "manfree" or "womanfree"

Childfree is kind of toxic, like MGTOW. Same energy with forums filled with bitter people trying to justify their life choices to each other.

DrSbaitso · 15/09/2021 09:03

It may be just my reading into it, but "childfree" also always struck me as kind of defensive. It's so contrived.

CounsellorTroi · 15/09/2021 09:11

I don’t think childfree toxic or defensive. Someone who does not want children will see it as liberating that they don’t have them.

DrSbaitso · 15/09/2021 09:20

@CounsellorTroi

I don’t think childfree toxic or defensive. Someone who does not want children will see it as liberating that they don’t have them.
Many single people who escaped terrible relationships will feel the same way, but they don't tend to use terms that imply insult towards men or women.
CounsellorTroi · 15/09/2021 09:29

Many single people who escaped terrible relationships will feel the same way, but they don't tend to use terms that imply insult towards men or women.

I don’t think it’s comparable. Many people who have escaped terrible relationships don’t wish to remain single for ever.

DrSbaitso · 15/09/2021 09:36

@CounsellorTroi

Many single people who escaped terrible relationships will feel the same way, but they don't tend to use terms that imply insult towards men or women.

I don’t think it’s comparable. Many people who have escaped terrible relationships don’t wish to remain single for ever.

Ooh, a lot of them do. And I don't blame them, with the experiences some of them have had. Plenty of women on the Relationships board say they never want a man in their lives again. But if they ever do use a term like "manfree", it's deliberate and loaded.

But I don't think the term is dependent on remaining true forever anyway. It describes how you feel at the time. Plenty of people don't want kids until they do.

Obviously people can describe themselves as they like. I don't mind if people without children don't want my life. I want it, that's all that matters.

I just don't like the implied insult to children, as if they are an inherently negative thing. "Manfree" or "womanfree" are clearly less acceptable for some reason if you're not prepared to defend those.

There is something a bit defensive about using a contrived term that makes it very clear you want people to know your feelings about it.

CounsellorTroi · 15/09/2021 09:44

I just don't like the implied insult to children, as if they are an inherently negative thing

I don’t see the fact that someone chooses not to become a parent as an implied insult to children. It’s about them not the children.

CounsellorTroi · 15/09/2021 09:45

Seems to me you (general you)would only see it as an implied insult to children if you have a problem with people who choose not to have children.

burnoutbabe · 15/09/2021 09:51

I never wanted to say I was childless as I never wanted people to think this was something sad or be awkward about it.

So I wanted a phrase that indicated this is an active choice I have made.

As I am aware of couples my age (well when we were in our 30s) who don't have kids and probably very much did so we didn't discuss the topic of kids at all.

YeahButYouAreWrong · 15/09/2021 10:05

I think the way people talk about those without children is more problematic than saying childless/childfree.

Like the example in your OP of dreading childless employers. That's just stupid. Ime having children / not having children is not what makes someone understanding.

I am no less understanding now than I was before I became a mother.

I also can't stand all the BS "you become less selfish when you're a parent", "you don't understand X until you have a baby". It's utter codswallop.

The ONLY thing that has changed in terms of my self is that yes, I'm less selfish ONLY in regards to my son. I'm not more selfless generally, no more so than I was before when it comes to other people. But again, that's not completely unique to parents, plenty of people have someone they care about more than themselves.

DrSbaitso · 15/09/2021 10:12

@CounsellorTroi

Seems to me you (general you)would only see it as an implied insult to children if you have a problem with people who choose not to have children.
Well, I can't control how you take the response any more than you can control the way I do. But I didn't want kids myself for a long time, so I've really got no issues with people who felt the same and never changed their minds. Kids are not an obligation.

But I truly don't see how anyone can think "free" doesn't imply negativity to whatever precedes it. A vegetarian food range, years ago, found that its sales jumped when it changed its branding to "meat free". You aren't prepared to defend "womanfree" or "manfree" after all, and sorry, but I'm just not buying the idea that it's because single people probably want a relationship at some point. Loads don't! And loads of people, like me, change their minds about children.

Like I said, I don't see any insult to me in the term. I see insult to a particular demographic of society that hasn't done anything to deserve it. It's a contrived and clumsy phrase with obvious intended connotations. It's not merely factual. It was invented not to be merely factual.

DrSbaitso · 15/09/2021 10:14

I also can't stand all the BS "you become less selfish when you're a parent", "you don't understand X until you have a baby". It's utter codswallop.

Oh yes, definitely agree. It's true you can't truly know parenthood unless you're a parent, but that's true of any life changing experience. Doesn't mean you can't get enough of a working appreciation to get by.

Parenthood certainly doesn't mean automatic superiority.

TheVolturi · 15/09/2021 10:17

Is it something like the chest feeding /people with a womb crap? You'd like them to say people who are not parents or something? If you have not got a child, you are childless.

CounsellorTroi · 15/09/2021 10:22

You aren't prepared to defend "womanfree" or "manfree" after all, and sorry, but I'm just not buying the idea that it's because single people probably want a relationship at some point. Loads don't!

You know, it wouldn’t bother me if people wanted to use those terms. I wouldn’t take it as a judgement of me or my relationship status or of men/women in general.

DrSbaitso · 15/09/2021 10:25

@CounsellorTroi

You aren't prepared to defend "womanfree" or "manfree" after all, and sorry, but I'm just not buying the idea that it's because single people probably want a relationship at some point. Loads don't!

You know, it wouldn’t bother me if people wanted to use those terms. I wouldn’t take it as a judgement of me or my relationship status or of men/women in general.

Ok, fair enough. But I wouldn't like it, and I do think there must be a reason why "childfree" has gained hold when "manfree" and "womanfree" haven't.
YeahButYouAreWrong · 15/09/2021 10:25

@DrSbaitso you could say the same about childLESS being negative though. You less something that you are supposed to / the majority have.

Free sounds more positive than less.

I'm not sure why it would make that much difference to a person with children whether or not someone else thought they were a burden they were glad to be free from. I'm not bothered or offended that someone might think having children is something they'd rather be "free from".

I can understand much more why someone who couldn't have children through no choice of their own would rather not be known as childLESS and rather childfree.