To wish people would stop saying childless

[Moolihooli]

Watching loose women today, Katie Piper - not for the first time - used “childless” in reference to women without children.

Previously she has also said that she dreads employers who are childless because they lack the empathy for women with child care needs.

I wish people would stop using “childless” as a description for people who are not parents.

Well, that's a new one on me.

@Moolihooli

Childfree is ok. Or, even, without children is better.

But the suggestion that being “childless” means a lack of empathy is absolutely wrong.

Look, it's not suggesting a lack of empathy but yes I absolutely notice a difference in employers who have children vs those who don't. If you don't have kids you don't understand (I certainly didn't pre-kids) just like someone without cancer doesn't understand what life is like for someone who has or has had cancer. Said person can still be empathetic but they just won't fully understand the minutiae that makes up your life.

Especially small things (which I found out from a friend) like the fact that chemo makes all the hair in your nose fall out which makes your nose run all the time which is really fucking annoying.

Similarly before having kids I thought people were exaggerating when they said they hadn't slept for years. And equally child free boss doesn't seem to understand that, no, I can't answer an email at 8.30am because I need to dress my child, feed him, brush his teeth, pack his lunch etc etc etc and then get myself ready.

Equally I've never had a dog so I don't know the minutiae of life with a dog e.g. dealing with vets and neutering or whatever.

It's not a judgment it's just a reality.

Hmm, ‘childless’ to me implies that I am lacking in some way, or have less in my life for not having children. When in reality, many people who have chosen not to have children may likely feel that the comparative freedom this brings is a positive thing. I’d also just tell someone if I felt uncomfortable with the terms they used to describe me - hadn’t even thought about it until you posted. From now on, I shall gently correct future ‘childless’ comments to ‘child-free’ - thank you!

I’m childless, not by choice. Over twenty years of TTC and failed IVF rounds has made me strong enough to not be offended by “childless”, “child free” or whatever people want to say, I’ve had far worse happen to me.

I’m somewhat disappointed that people think those of us without children can’t have empathy or understand what it’s like to be a working parent. What nonsense! I could say the same about people with children, in particular doctors who attempted to treat my infertility, don’t have empathy for my situation if they have children. It’s ridiculous. Should only infertile people become fertility doctors?

Having no children I am technically child free, but since we wanted them but can’t and it is a source of huge sadness, I would hate to be called or described as childfree. Childless is fine.

Or prob better to not boil it down to one simplistic word.

It is really offensive to assume all people without children lack empathy or just didn’t want them.. obviously

I don’t think the term matters- I think the issue is that it is used to describe only ever women. Simon Cowell and George Clooney were never “childless” before settling down later in life.

As for lack of empathy- of course people can be empathetic to a certain degree about anything but loved experience does trump that.

Lived not loved

I tend to interpret childless to be someone who wanted kids but couldn't / didn't have them for reasons outside their control.

Childfree I tend to interpret as having chosen not to have children.

I think childfree is far more offensive - and I don't think many words are really offensive either.

Being free of something implies that it is rather a bad or undesirable thing. Bedbug-free, pain-free, disease-free. Can you imagine saying it about any other group of people? Woman-free, Asian-free, lesbian-free? It's only possible because many think of children as a sort of lifestyle choice rather than as persons.

So, Katie Piper is the expert on empathy in the workplace?

The term does matter to many people

A neutral, factual description is better. So ‘childless’, or simply not being lazy and saying ‘people without children’

Childfree carries an implied ‘freedom’ so it is far from a neutral term.

Child free isn't right either.

If we go away for a dirty weekend we say we are having a child free weekend but we still have kids. So child free is not the correct term for someone with no kids.

@SkiingIsHeaven child free can be used as equally in either context, and both scenarios it implies choice.

From good ole Wiki "Voluntary childlessness, also called being childfree, describes the voluntary choice not to have children."

So we have to try and ascertain whether someone's state of being without children is by choice or not?

@MorriseysGladioli what's to ascertain? They can simply "not have children" until such a time an appropriate 'label' can be applied to them.

Ah, but my circumstance is different again.
How would you refer to me?

@FightingtheFoo um, are you really likening have children to having cancer?

I hope I’ve read you wrong. It’s late, I’m covering 3 colleagues shifts, I’m exhausted. If not, here’s a hint- one is a choice, one isn’t.

Apologies for the typos in my last post

I’ve not seen it tbf, but ‘Childless’ to me implies I’m inadequate because (for whatever reason) I don’t have DC. Don’t get me wrong, I choose not to have them. My friend who has struggled however (and is still trying) would find ‘childless’ a horrible description of her current life

[quote OnceUponAMidnightBeery]@FightingtheFoo um, are you really likening have children to having cancer?

I hope I’ve read you wrong. It’s late, I’m covering 3 colleagues shifts, I’m exhausted. If not, here’s a hint- one is a choice, one isn’t.[/quote]
She is saying that people often have less specific knowledge of the realities of a thing if they have themselves not experienced the thing. Cancer, having kids, being in an infantry battle, becoming a nun, whatever.

I agree with @Athinginitself, who has put it very well

As someone who has chosen not to have children I hate the term childless

I also hate Katie Pipers assumption that as an employer I would not have empathy for ‘women with childcare needs’

And why does she assume men don’t have childcare needs?

I would prefer non parent/parent. People that do not have children often find that there is a negative connotation associated with childfree/childless.

It does irritate me that people think that non parents can't empathise - yes we don't have exactly the same experiences as parents but we also have our own issues which require flexibility. We all have to use our words and ask for what we need in life!

Well barren was a nice term back in the day, maybe it needs a comeback.

Previously she has also said that she dreads employers who are childless because they lack the empathy for women with child care needs.

I have no issues with the term 'childless' but I take offence that the idea of having no children means you lack empathy for the caring responsibilities of those who do.

And I'd feel the same about whatever word she used to express this sentiment.

It's only possible because many think of children as a sort of lifestyle choice rather than as persons.

Of course having children is a lifestyle choice. Not having children is also a lifestyle choice.

It doesn't make the children any less human