To wish people would stop saying childless

[Moolihooli]

Watching loose women today, Katie Piper - not for the first time - used “childless” in reference to women without children.

Previously she has also said that she dreads employers who are childless because they lack the empathy for women with child care needs.

I wish people would stop using “childless” as a description for people who are not parents.

@Athinginitself

Currently people use childless when the person wanted children but couldn't for any reason and childfree when they chose not to or are happy with the situation. I'm the former I quite like there being a distinction. There are a lot of horrible assumptions and stupid stereotypes made about women without children but that's going to happen whatever word is used.

But what if, as in this case, they seem to want to describe both kinds of people? The only connotation I see in childless is a man or a woman who hasn't got children....which is a bare statement of fact....if she had said sterile ir barren then I could understand that being problematic. I do think that childfree has connotations of childless by choice...

Although having said that, as a childless person, I heartily disagree with her.

Because of my own experiences I would consider childless to mean not by choice, and childfree to be without children by choice.

I think describing an employer etc but terms are ok.

However, whether an employer has children or not themselves does not necessarily make them parent friendly.

It takes literally half a second more to say people/men/women without/who don’t have children compared to the loaded terms childless and childfree. It’s a shame she doesn’t want to be careful with her language to create an inclusive atmosphere in relation to this particular issue compared to other ones.

Katie was talking about struggling to find someone who will be empathetic to her child's needs and somehow you managed to find offence for yourself?

You are unreasonable. It is the correct term. Just because you don't like a word doesn't mean it can be erased from the English language.

I use childfree because I think childless suggests I wanted them but couldn't have them and I don't want the sad face when I say I am childless.

Personally I don't care that much because ultimately I don't have children and am very happy with that decision 😁

yes, homeless is judgemental

I disagree. The piece linked there suggests referring to a homeless person as "a neighbour in need" which to me is vague and open to interpretation. Or describing someone as "a person struggling with homelessness" which means exactly the same thing as being "homeless" but is inferring that the person is struggling.

Getting caught up in the semantics of wording seems pointless to me.

I take umbrage with the assumption of lack of empathy more offensive than the term, though the term is offensive.

Personally, I have found those without children to be more empathetic in the work place. Those with children tend to be more in their bubble. What Katie actually means is she expects those without children to drop everything and cover because she doesn't think that those without children have commitments so therefore should be able to work at the drop of a hat... Showing a severe lack of empathy. I'm generally willing to cover but if I've got other commitments, be it family or social then I can't just dump it all. Also, for instance, I pay for tennis lessons. If I cover a shift over my lesson I will lost that money, I expect that cost to be covered as well as overtime payments.

I'm childfree. My sister is childless. We would be offended is referred to otherwise. If the person you are talking about finds it offensive then it's offensive. That's pretty basic.

@Balonzette

You are unreasonable. It is the correct term. Just because you don't like a word doesn't mean it can be erased from the English language.

It isn't the correct word. The technically accurate term for people who do not have children is “nulliparous.”

Child free is stupid, I'm not childless, I have 3 but I say I'm child free if I am going out without them.

It seems like people with children don't like the term childfree because it implys children are a burden. For some of us who very easily made the choice not to have them, they absolutely are a burden and not one we want to be saddled with. So we should hang a label we don't like on ourselves to make you feel better about a lifestyle choice you made (and yes it is a lifestyle choice).

Childless implies a lack - I am definitely not lacking anything by not having kids so I say childfree.

Childless or child free who cares it all means the same thing just different ways of saying it!

On another note if your are child free why are you on a parenting forum 🤦🏼

@kaleidoscopeheartless

Childless or child free who cares it all means the same thing just different ways of saying it!

On another note if your are child free why are you on a parenting forum 🤦🏼

Because most of the threads aren’t about parenting 🤦‍♀️

@kaleidoscopeheartless

Childless or child free who cares it all means the same thing just different ways of saying it!

On another note if your are child free why are you on a parenting forum 🤦🏼

BINGO!

The technically accurate term for people who do not have children is “nulliparous.”

If we’re being technical then it’s not. That is the term for not having given birth. It’s a very sensitive issue but there could be some overlap sadly between those who’ve given birth and those society regards as not having children.

I think the employer thing is more linked to them knowing the minutiae of life with small children, because they've been there.

I have a relative who doesn't have children, who was very very concerned for me/the children, during Covid, because we'd had several colds & had to pcr. I think he thought we had something wrong with our immune systems. I had a 1&3yo in childcare. The relative had no idea that children got more colds than adults, and certainly no idea that 5-10 a year is the norm (and we weren't getting any more than anyone else). If this relative was my employer, I don't think they'd understand why parents often have sick children so much.

The same relative genuinely didn't understand why we couldn't, when in a hotel, just leave a sleeping toddler in the room and go to the bar, or why they might struggle with eating a formal meal at 8pm (at 18m old).

Then again, parents of young children may not understand parenting older children, those with older children may have forgotten, and worse still, some parents at your state might just get a lot of better luck than you, leaving the employer actually quite unsympathetic.

@Moonbabysmum so by your own logic you concede she’s made a huge generalisation? Perhaps so huge it’s no longer accurate?

Why is it about people obsessed with dissecting every word used and out a personal significance behind them and then badgering others who somehow continue to use the word for the definition attached to it?

I'm getting tired of thinking that anything I say, with good and caring intention, is possibly going to be interpreted the wrong way because some people are looking at any mean to feel offended and then no matter how much you try to justify that it was never meant to do, get shut down and labelled as a bad person.

What happens to just judging people in their actions?

I never said it was accurate.

I do think on balance, someone that's been there, done that, is more likely to be understanding of the impact having children can have

What would you prefer @Moolihooli child free - without children - adult with no offspring

I’d like to point out as well, to all the idiots who ask why people without children are on here, in addition to the myriad threads totally unrelated to parenting, it’s quite a sensible way to learn about the concerns of parents. Please don’t make us all feel unwelcome when we’re doing something that helps to understand you and potentially make your life easier.

I know children get a dozen or so colds per year, I know about the 48 hour rule, I know nannies can be unreliable. I know all this from MN and it makes me more sympathetic to my staff despite not having been through these issues personally.

So for anyone asking why those without children are here and making them feel very unwelcome, jog the fuck on.

Shit bosses are shit bosses regardless of it they’ve had children or not. People have their own experience of childcare. That could be a massive support system with a stat at home spouse or literally nobody.

I agree that this lack of empathy is most likely people without children saying no to dropping everything at the last minute to work, or not wanting to work all the antisocial shifts, or actually wanting to spend Christmas how they want it. Katie needs some empathy that everyone has other things that are important in their personal life. Children aren’t the only possibility.

Childfree is usually used by people who are that by a choice.
Childless is usually uses by people who are that not by a choice.

Also, agree with pps, people need to stop digging into everything everyone says fgs🙄

@PurpleDaisies

Shit bosses are shit bosses regardless of it they’ve had children or not. People have their own experience of childcare. That could be a massive support system with a stat at home spouse or literally nobody.

I agree that this lack of empathy is most likely people without children saying no to dropping everything at the last minute to work, or not wanting to work all the antisocial shifts, or actually wanting to spend Christmas how they want it. Katie needs some empathy that everyone has other things that are important in their personal life. Children aren’t the only possibility.

yup, also childless/free doesn't mean no responsibilities, aging parents, disabled or chronically sick loved ones and so on limit what folk can do as much or more than parenting

I don’t want people to be thinking about whether I wanted kids or not when they are choosing how to refer to me. I can’t get excited about this. It’s a normal word to describe someone without a child.