To wish people would stop saying childless

[Moolihooli]

Watching loose women today, Katie Piper - not for the first time - used “childless” in reference to women without children.

Previously she has also said that she dreads employers who are childless because they lack the empathy for women with child care needs.

I wish people would stop using “childless” as a description for people who are not parents.

@MyLandlordIsAWOL

It's only possible because many think of children as a sort of lifestyle choice rather than as persons.

Of course having children is a lifestyle choice. Not having children is also a lifestyle choice.

It doesn't make the children any less human

It's not for a lot of people. And as a species it's not either. Living in a loft is a lifestyle choice, or buying a Prada bag. Having a family is a strong biological urge and sometimes just the result of a biological process.

Someone may be in a position to choose not to have them, but even then you'd hope it was about more than lifestyle.

When people are using words like child-free that would, when used about any other group, be considered dehumanising, it's doesn't make for a convincing argument that it's not seeing children as a sort of consumer product.

I am without issue... better? No, not really

But seriously what else should I call myself because I don't have children of my own, making me childless.

I prefer parent or non-parent. Childless stings. And I agree childfree implies children are a burden or a product.

I think it depends on the context of the conversation eg if a women wanted children and was unhappy about it childless would be appropriate. If it was a mother who had escaped for the day then child free would be more appropriate. I really can’t see why it’s an issue to be honest.

I am childless because I don't have children. What's wrong with it?

It's not the term that's offensive, it's the implied judgement that comes with it. If you were talking about the difficulties of looking after dogs and as a shorthand started referring to "the dogless" nobody would be offended bc nobody cares whether anyone has a dog or not.

Maybe take comfort or solidarity from the fact that the names for mothers are hardly better - working mum (we all work, just some of don't get paid), yummy mummy (as opposed to the rest of us who don't come off particularly well when we're assessed by our looks and physical "freshness"), a "mum hairdo" or clothes or whatever = safe, frumpy and so on. Basically, as a woman, once you hit that age of about 30, yiu slowly have to pick a team (or circumstancepicks one for you) , and it doesn't matter what side you end up on, none of the lazy stereotypes applied to either side is very flattering. Meanwhile men continue to be able to just be people. Women are defined (and dismissed) by their parent status whatever it is.

Why is there this culture of outrage at everything these days? 🤷‍♀️

I'm sure a woman who desperately wanted a child but couldn't have one would find "childfree" a bit insensitive too since it implies she deliberately didn't want them and is better off without one

To me the term "childfree" is almost like implying you are free of some disease or something 🤣

And genuine question to the childless/childfree/non parent/without issue etc - do you hand on heart genuinely empathise if a parent comes to you with child care issues or are you inwardly rolling your eyes and judging?? because my experience in the workplace is that employers and line managers who do have children just "get it" whilst there is an air of suspicion from those that don't that I'm slacking off in some way?

I think the origins of "childfree" are to do with people who actively choose not to have children, and want that to be known. The "default" has been that most people WILL have and want to have children, so people wanted a way to say up front that they'd decided against it. For example, it used to be almost impossible for women to get permanent methods of birth control even if they made it clear they never wanted children.

Previously she has also said that she dreads employers who are childless because they lack the empathy for women with child care needs. This is just a bad, thoughtless generalisation. I used to work at a large company which was very flexible about core hours, time off, flex time, etc. The former boss who stands out to me as the least flexible and the least sympathetic - even going against company policy to demand that employees be in the office during working hours no matter what - was a man with several children. He'd just never had a problem personally because his wife handled the childcare duties.

To me the term childless implies that I actually should have had children.

@twinningatlife I think some non parents get sick of being asked to stay late/fill in for parents, who get flexibility. This is not always the case, of course but it does happen.

Everyone should get flexibility because we all have issues that crop up - elderly parents, whatever it is.

I don’t like the implications of childfree. You may personally think children are a burden, but we shouldn’t use such a loaded word when speaking in general. I understand that childless isn’t exactly neutral either, but perhaps in time it will lose its negative side.

'Childfree' is an obnoxious term.

I spent a while on childfree forums when I was trying to decide whether or not to have children. I soon realised they were full of people complaining about 'breeders'. (I thought they would be using their free time to discuss far more interesting topics. It was quite the eye-opener.) I now have very little respect for people who actively use that term.

The people who don't want children and who don't care if others do seem much more chilled about being described as childless from what I can see. They've got better things to think about.

@Moolihooli

Childfree is ok. Or, even, without children is better.

But the suggestion that being “childless” means a lack of empathy is absolutely wrong.

I agree that implying that not having children means you lack empathy is bizarre and untrue.

Happy to use childfree instead of childless. Slightly implies that people with children are burdened as opposed to free, but I can take that on the chin

Previously she has also said that she dreads employers who are childless because they lack the empathy for women with child care needs.
Did she? That’s a sweeping statement.

Neither term is great. Childfree sounds like something you are trying to cut down on like caffeine, alcohol or gluten. Childless sounds like you are deserving of sympathy. If I genuinely didn’t want children, I wouldn’t care which term was used. If I did want children and couldn’t have them, I wouldn’t like either one but it would be the not having children that would upset me, not the word.

I agree with a PP, who said that the terms ‘childfree’ or ‘childless’ are only applied to to women, not to men. When describing myself to to others, I say I don’t have children. If they ask, I say I couldn’t have children. It’s a couple of extra words to say, rather than a term which I myself find dismissive.

[quote OnceUponAMidnightBeery]@FightingtheFoo um, are you really likening have children to having cancer?

I hope I’ve read you wrong. It’s late, I’m covering 3 colleagues shifts, I’m exhausted. If not, here’s a hint- one is a choice, one isn’t.[/quote]
I too found that post and comparison to having cancer pretty tasteless....tastefree...whatever.

I don't have children and would prefer to be called a person who doesn't have children because either childless or childfree I think imply that having children is the norm and neither is neutral. But I don't mind too much. What I do mind is having it assumed I don't have empathy...I do and am very happy to cover for colleagues who need me to due to their childcare responsibilities. Nothing to do with having been there and done that but to do with them telling me why they aren't available to do something and me believing them. This has happened a lot but I don't mind. Thenagain they cover for me for various reasons and we're a team so help each other.

But they are childless? don't be so politically correct.

I call myself childfree because I don’t want children. I usually see the term childless used when people wanted children but couldn’t have them.

I like the term childfree because I want it to be clear that I chose not to have children, as people usually assume if you’re a woman without children it’s some kind of pity story.

So true that men don’t get this labelling crap though.

I also think Katie Piper’s comment was very narrow minded. That’s like me saying I don’t like an employer who has kids because they’ll always expect me to cover for people with kids. All employers are different. There are also employers who have kids but still aren’t sympathetic to childcare problems (as the pandemic has shown)

@EdgeOfACoin

'Childfree' is an obnoxious term.

I spent a while on childfree forums when I was trying to decide whether or not to have children. I soon realised they were full of people complaining about 'breeders'. (I thought they would be using their free time to discuss far more interesting topics. It was quite the eye-opener.) I now have very little respect for people who actively use that term.

The people who don't want children and who don't care if others do seem much more chilled about being described as childless from what I can see. They've got better things to think about.

I agree, particularly with the last paragraph. I feel it's only offensive if you really want kids as it might sting a little bit. Which is funny as it's usually the ones who are adamant they don't want kids who have aproblem with the description. If you don't want kids, I don't see how term is offensive.

If someone described me as fearless, I wouldn't say 'actually I'm fear free'.

At work last week two of the dads were telling us they love going into the office now for a break from their children and warning our younger male colleague not to have kids. I often hear parents complaining that their children are a burden so I'm not sure why childfree is a problematic word to parents. I mean, I love my pets but I don't feel offended when someone describes their home as pet-free - I feel envious that they don't have to deal with fur on everything!

What about homeless? Is that judgemental too?

I think this is daft. "Childless"" is neutral and without connotations.

I don’t like either “childless” (implies that I’m missing out on something I should have) or “childfree” (seems to be more commonly used by people who seem vehemently anti-children, which I’m not)

I just say I don’t have children 🤷‍♀️

@SmileyClare

What about homeless? Is that judgemental too?

I think this is daft. "Childless"" is neutral and without connotations.

Yes it's judgemental too see for example my.neighbor.org/terms-the-homeless-or-homeless-people/

Child free or lucky