To feel I can’t holiday abroad again?

[backoffice]

I feel really guilty using air travel (although it’s so easy!) and used to travel by train through Europe wherever I could. Had a lovely trip planned in 2020 taking in several countries - but all went to pot!

Inter-Europe travel feels very dodgy now with Covid and lack of fresh air etc in carriages. Planes feel safer (shorter trips and good air circulation) but I’m too guilt-ridden because of the environmental impact. Cruises seem just as bad!

I can’t see a way of planning a safe and ethical holiday abroad now. AIBU? How are people justifying it?

Who said I needed to justify it? Just do it. Or don’t do it. Whatever.

I think cruises are actually worse. I know that feel, OP!

Do you drive in the UK?

If so, then surely, would you consider driving in Europe?

I went abroad 3 times this summer. Going abroad at October half term, at Christmas and at Easter. I love going abroad. A global pandemic isn’t going to stop me. Haven’t considered it unethical. If anything it generates income in the countries we visit so push comes to shove, I’d say it’s more ethical than unethical.
I can afford all the tests etc but I do feel sorry for people for whom the cost of testing is prohibitive.

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You can tie yourself up in knots trying to be ethical or covid safe. I think your best bet would be to stay home and walk or cycle to days out.

For balance, we’re going on a 10 hour flight in Feb for a holiday which is neither covid proof nor carbon friendly. I feel no reason to justify it. 🤷‍♀️

@DeborahAnnabel

I went abroad 3 times this summer. Going abroad at October half term, at Christmas and at Easter. I love going abroad. A global pandemic isn’t going to stop me. Haven’t considered it unethical. If anything it generates income in the countries we visit so push comes to shove, I’d say it’s more ethical than unethical. I can afford all the tests etc but I do feel sorry for people for whom the cost of testing is prohibitive.

I assume the ethical part the op refers is to do with the harm to the environment.

Most of the people I see preaching about the environment impact are people who are over 70, who have had multiple trips in their lifetime and preach about giving up their passports.

Or people preach to others but use private jets themselves.

Is this a thread to criticise those that travel ? You can also pay for your carbon offset

@DeborahAnnabel

I went abroad 3 times this summer. Going abroad at October half term, at Christmas and at Easter. I love going abroad. A global pandemic isn’t going to stop me. Haven’t considered it unethical. If anything it generates income in the countries we visit so push comes to shove, I’d say it’s more ethical than unethical. I can afford all the tests etc but I do feel sorry for people for whom the cost of testing is prohibitive.

@DeborahAnnabel pre-Covid you may remember there was concern about the ethics of your carbon footprint and flying??

www.ovoenergy.com/blog/green/the-carbon-footprint-of-flying-and-eco-travel-alternatives

www.bbc.com/future/article/20200218-climate-change-how-to-cut-your-carbon-emissions-when-flying

I know how you feel. I try not to fly for pleasure any more also, and use trains, buses and ferries to go on holiday (also car but try to avoid). I have used a plane for family reasons in the past few years and will fly this winter to meet an unavoidable commitment.

I do this for carbon reasons. It is a sacrifice but I agree with you OP that it's necessary and worthwhile.

I don't agree you can't ever travel again. At some point in the near future we won't be in a pandemic phase with covid. The virus won't be so prevalent and vaccination will mean most people won't be at too much risk of catching it. I don't think there should be much unnecessary travel until we've got the epidemic under control (which WILL happen but hasn't yet).

Also, trains are much better ventilated than you are giving them credit for. Inter city type trains are as good as aeroplanes for air circulation I think. Local trains I would guess are less good. But don't despair it will get better. In the meantime thank you for being an ethical traveller.

I’m surprised that so many of you aren’t worried by the ecological concerns. My teens are always on climate rallies etc which makes me feel even WORSE.

I do drive but minimise my driving and always take the train for longer journeys.

Do people really not care about climate change? It surprises me, especially with children. I want to do all I can to preserve their future.

Deplorabelle that’s reassuring about train ventilation. I’ve mainly looked into planes. I suppose with Covid there is a greater business imperative for rail companies to up their game too.

I am child free and use busses. I have a carbon credit for 2x a year flight imo.

@Mybalconyiscracking why the need to be so rude?

I genuinely thought that most people were actively trying to reduce their carbon footprint and worried about climate change. I’m surprised so many people don’t want to take action. Especially if you have children.

There are businesses popping up all the time with ideas on how to combat this. Don't get disheartened OP. Did you know you can travel by cargo ship, it might be worth considering

YABU. I’m justifying it in four simple words: because I want to.

[quote backoffice]@Mybalconyiscracking why the need to be so rude?

I genuinely thought that most people were actively trying to reduce their carbon footprint and worried about climate change. I’m surprised so many people don’t want to take action. Especially if you have children.[/quote]
there are many ways to worry about climate change, not only flying abroad affects it.

You've said you've kids hence having them affects the CC.
Eating meat
Buying not local
Only use your feet for transport, anything else will have a knock on effect on the CC.
And many more that I'm sure I'm missing

I’m really surprised - and disappointed - that 90% of mumsnetters don’t GAF about this issue. The climate crisis feels really important to me. I can’t just carry on “because I want to”.

If you take the train instead of a plane will the plane actually not fly to the destination?

If you do take the plane, how much extra carbon will be generated by you being on board?

If you stay at home in a dark cupboard wearing only clothes that you have knitted yourself from rope made of homegrown courgettes and existing on a diet of rainwater will the planes still fly?

@SirenSays I have read about the cargo ship option! Looks a bit too rudimentary for me…