To feel I can’t holiday abroad again?

[backoffice]

I feel really guilty using air travel (although it’s so easy!) and used to travel by train through Europe wherever I could. Had a lovely trip planned in 2020 taking in several countries - but all went to pot!

Inter-Europe travel feels very dodgy now with Covid and lack of fresh air etc in carriages. Planes feel safer (shorter trips and good air circulation) but I’m too guilt-ridden because of the environmental impact. Cruises seem just as bad!

I can’t see a way of planning a safe and ethical holiday abroad now. AIBU? How are people justifying it?

I do what I can
I recycle
I limit plastic purchases
I walk pretty much everywhere

But when it comes to holidays… twice a year, flying, nothing will stop me

I'm with you, OP - I shan't be flying anywhere in the future (didn't fly that much in the past, really), because I'm concerned about climate change and want to do my part. I know many people are oblivious, or behaving as though they're oblivious - but I'm letting 'them do them'. If predictions are correct, then the future looks pretty bleak to me and the results of our collective actions, one way or the other, will become apparent and make a change in behaviour unavoidable. Not so sure about attitude, but it's not up to me to police it.

I do all those other things - shop at farmers market, pay a lot for local food deliveries etc. But nothing has anywhere like the impact of flying. It’s all pretty pointless if we are still flying.

@backoffice

I’m really surprised - and disappointed - that 90% of mumsnetters don’t GAF about this issue. The climate crisis feels really important to me. I can’t just carry on “because I want to”.

Nope. IDGAF if you wish to put it like that.

We take our little girl all round the world. It’s important to us that she sees lots of different places and experiences many different cultures.

@backoffice

I do all those other things - shop at farmers market, pay a lot for local food deliveries etc. But nothing has anywhere like the impact of flying. It’s all pretty pointless if we are still flying.

Really? Where is the info on that? Genuine question

go with the trains.

I'm also surprised that people don't think about climate when booking holidays abroad. they may fuss about organic food and not using plastic bags at the supermarket, but then fly 2 or 3 times a year just for fun. when flying has a MUCH bigger impact than all the other things.

what will it take to make people see flying as an antisocial activity?

It's not really obliviousness in many cases. It's just that people often don't seem to understand that other chose to make sacrifices, or doing them kind of by chance elsewhere. That's also why there is most likely the 90+% yabu.

Some people don't fly.
Some don't eat meat.
Some don't have a car.
Some buy less and try to reuse where they can.
And so on.

It's incredibly annoying to see people do "but whyyyy aren't people sacrificing this thing, I am? Don't they care about the children?" all the time because someone else isn't sacrificing what they did.

If you want to stop climate change, stop reproducing.

What about all of those people employed by the tourism industry? Do you not give a fuck about them? (Selflessly books lots of holidays to keep them in jobs, and also because I want to)

We limit buying single use plastics and recycle everything we can buy as we don’t have family in the U.K. this involves regular travel. We are currently in Luxembourg for a three generation get together for the first time in 18 months. Nothing will stop us seeing family

I feel like being childless is far less carbon-heavy than my twice a year flights (maybe 3). Might look up the maths before I’m made to feel guilty!

I tell myself that one of the upsides to not being a parent is that my carbon footprint will always be pretty tiny. So I don't feel the need to give up air travel.

I haven't been on a plane since 2017 and then it was a short trip back to the uk.
I agree with you OP but it's the younger generation 20's/30's40's who clearly don't GAF about climate change.

The idea that the over 70's have spent a lifetime travelling around the globe is laughable. My brothers and sister (70's) haven't been further than France!

x post with @Sagegreenvelvet!

@backoffice I think a lot of people are actively trying to reduce carbon footprint. As well as reducing air travel and increasing recycling and adopting a plant based diet, quite a few of my friends have decided not to have children at all as they believe that is a much bigger way to help protect the future of the planet.

It's easier to open a window on a train than on an aircraft in my experience.

Many airlines will allow you to offset your carbon footprint of the flight with a donation to an environmental charity. That is what we do.

Surprised Durex isn't running campaign with that tbh😂

Protect our planet and yourself. Wear Durex😂

Not holidaying abroad again seems like a bit of a bold statement. I can understand you not holidaying abroad this year, and your stated reasons seem sensible enough. Nonetheless, COVID won't be this much of a public health issue forever. And (if you can afford them) you could consider socially distanced/well ventilated rail solutions like sleeper compartments with windows you can open, for example.

BTW, my approach is to limit my flying. I allow one flight home (Germany to UK) and back per year. I think this is reasonable, with other limitations like no car ownership, no meat consumption and waste minimization. Remember that a substantial proportion of the pollution from flying is generated by a small number of very regular fliers. If everyone flies 1-2 times per year, we wouldn't have so many planes in the sky.

Yes, pretty sure multiple children are worse than a flight abroad once a year, but conveniently no one with multiple kids seems to be concerned about that when they're guilt-tripping other people about their life choices

I think a lot of people do care about climate change. I know we make an effort: reusable nappies, recycle everything, cut down on driving, eat less meat, try to buy eco friendly stuff, and plenty of my friends are the same. But we do also want to live and enjoy our life and visit new places, so like everything, there's a balance to be found.

Also adopting a plant based diet is probably the worst thing you can do for the planet. Monocrops are killing our soil. When cows eat grass (just like in the wild, not megafarms where they're fed grains exclusively), they cause the grass to dump carbon into the soil (because the grass has a symbiotic relationship with the soil fungus, providing it with sugar - a 6-carbon molecule - in exchange for micronutrients) sequestering carbon from the atmosphere and creating up to a foot of topsoil/year. If the earth's grasslands were covered in cattle, it would completely reverse climate change in our lifetime.

During lockdown cows still farted yet the carbon level tanked. Ask yourself why.

Save the planet, eat a cow.

I do care about the climate crisis and yes it does make a (tiny) difference if an individual takes fewer flights. The fewer people fly, the fewer flights and the less emissions there will be. If everyone works on the basis that they won't make a difference, then nothing will change. On the other hand, it's a matter of balance. As an individual I am only prepared to do so much, and I do really value travel. We plan to cut down our flights compared to what we might do otherwise and see how much of Europe we can explore by train (quite a lot I think!) but will still take the occasional long-haul holiday.

However I have no real concerns about the Covid-safety of travelling through Europe by train while following whatever restrictions are in place.

Save the planet, eat a cow.

On it😂

@Annoyedanddissapointed

Save the planet, eat a cow.

On it😂

YES!!!

@backoffice

I’m really surprised - and disappointed - that 90% of mumsnetters don’t GAF about this issue. The climate crisis feels really important to me. I can’t just carry on “because I want to”.

Ok, so don’t I will be flying regularly