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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel I can’t holiday abroad again?

480 replies

backoffice · 13/09/2021 13:53

I feel really guilty using air travel (although it’s so easy!) and used to travel by train through Europe wherever I could. Had a lovely trip planned in 2020 taking in several countries - but all went to pot!

Inter-Europe travel feels very dodgy now with Covid and lack of fresh air etc in carriages. Planes feel safer (shorter trips and good air circulation) but I’m too guilt-ridden because of the environmental impact. Cruises seem just as bad!

I can’t see a way of planning a safe and ethical holiday abroad now. AIBU? How are people justifying it?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
userxx · 13/09/2021 15:24

@backoffice

I’m really surprised - and disappointed - that 90% of mumsnetters don’t GAF about this issue. The climate crisis feels really important to me. I can’t just carry on “because I want to”.
Well dont then. Buy a tent and camp in your garden.
HarebrightCedarmoon · 13/09/2021 15:25

Bugger that, if anything Covid has made me want to travel more than ever as you never know when we are going to be prevented from doing so again, and also life is short.

P0ntiacBandit · 13/09/2021 15:25

Actually don’t give a flying fuck about all this. I will travel when I want to, however I want to.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 13/09/2021 15:25

@parietal

go with the trains.

I'm also surprised that people don't think about climate when booking holidays abroad. they may fuss about organic food and not using plastic bags at the supermarket, but then fly 2 or 3 times a year just for fun. when flying has a MUCH bigger impact than all the other things.

what will it take to make people see flying as an antisocial activity?

The weather to become dramatically better in Britain, so never.
CyanideInTheFishPaste · 13/09/2021 15:25

@HarebrightCedarmoon

Bugger that, if anything Covid has made me want to travel more than ever as you never know when we are going to be prevented from doing so again, and also life is short.
Same. It's definitely sparked a wanderlust in me.
BarbaraofSeville · 13/09/2021 15:28

[quote SylvanasWindrunner]The article is here if anyone is interested. It's 2017 though so there's probably more recent research: www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children[/quote]
This. If you have children plural, your carbon footprint is already massive compared with the childfree and those who have one child.

You could fly long haul about twice a month and it's still not as much as having children, so you're in no position to start preaching about not flying Smile.

HarebrightCedarmoon · 13/09/2021 15:28

The biggest help to the future of the planet would be if they'd stop having all these children!

The future of the planet, sure, but not the future of humanity.

Who should be allowed to have kids then?

anon12345678901 · 13/09/2021 15:28

@chocolatesaltyballs22

Love that Guardian graphic. I only have one kid so my job is done and I can crack on with as many flights as I like Grin
Same here. And I get to eat a cow and not feel guilty. Grin
Gilly12345 · 13/09/2021 15:28

Haven’t had a foreign holiday since September 2019, we have had a cruise cancelled and 2 foreign holidays cancelled due to Covid, last year and this year we have taken holidays in the UK, we are now discussing foreign holidays for 2022 and will definitely book at least 2, I definitely do not feel guilty and do not even consider carbon footprint etc in my decision process.

CatsArePeople · 13/09/2021 15:30

Travelling abroad at present seems just too much faff and stress. I would love a holiday like we did before, but it will not be possible for the forseeable future.
Friends have recently been on a cruise. Around UK coast only, masks inside, social distancing... it's just doesn't seem worth it.

Plumtree391 · 13/09/2021 15:32

Go by plane, op, don't beat yourself up about it. It isn't as if you've been making a habit of flying.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 13/09/2021 15:33

@CatsArePeople

Travelling abroad at present seems just too much faff and stress. I would love a holiday like we did before, but it will not be possible for the forseeable future. Friends have recently been on a cruise. Around UK coast only, masks inside, social distancing... it's just doesn't seem worth it.
A lot of destinations are pretty normal bar testing there and back.... I don't think it's impossible. Having said that we haven't gone anywhere yet either.
MurielSpriggs · 13/09/2021 15:37

@HarebrightCedarmoon

The biggest help to the future of the planet would be if they'd stop having all these children!

The future of the planet, sure, but not the future of humanity.

Who should be allowed to have kids then?

a) The species is really not in danger of extinction due to failure to reproduce sufficiently.

b) Anyone can have as many kids as they like, I really don't care! Just as I delight in flying around the globe. But the thread is not about what is allowed, it's about ethical hand wringing.

Jerseygirl12 · 13/09/2021 15:37

I’ve been on a cruise and two flying holidays this year and am flying to a long haul holiday next month.
CatsArePeople I went on a Uk cruise in
July, it was a 10/10 holiday, no faff, just a brilliant holiday.

grapewine · 13/09/2021 15:38

You be disappointed all you want, OP. I haven't been anywhere for two years. I'm flying at Christmas if at all possible.

But then I didn't reproduce, and I don't have a car and don't often eat meat.

CatsArePeople · 13/09/2021 15:38

A lot of destinations are pretty normal bar testing there and back.... I don't think it's impossible. Having said that we haven't gone anywhere yet either.

I'm interested in particular destinations for personal reasons (would like to see family and friends) - and things are not looking good there and things may change any minute = more stress + money down the drain. We're not extremely wealthy, and a thing like staying and extra week would be a financial disaster.

FlumpsAreShit · 13/09/2021 15:39

I agree with you OP. People are dying now because of the climate crisis, and future generations will pay the price for our love of holidays. If you posted that you were breaking lockdown or something else that puts people at risk you'd get flamed. I think there's a cognitive dissonance here.

I think being vaccinated and taking sensible precautions should make going by train relatively safe.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 13/09/2021 15:40

@CatsArePeople

A lot of destinations are pretty normal bar testing there and back.... I don't think it's impossible. Having said that we haven't gone anywhere yet either.

I'm interested in particular destinations for personal reasons (would like to see family and friends) - and things are not looking good there and things may change any minute = more stress + money down the drain. We're not extremely wealthy, and a thing like staying and extra week would be a financial disaster.

That makes sense. It's not worth the risk is it.
Letsallscreamatthesistene · 13/09/2021 15:40

@backoffice

I’m really surprised - and disappointed - that 90% of mumsnetters don’t GAF about this issue. The climate crisis feels really important to me. I can’t just carry on “because I want to”.
Its not just MN. Its the mindset of the population. I agree with you, its really disheartening.
toconclude · 13/09/2021 15:41

@MrsScrubbithatescleaning

I haven't been on a plane since 2017 and then it was a short trip back to the uk. I agree with you OP but it's the younger generation 20's/30's40's who clearly don't GAF about climate change.

The idea that the over 70's have spent a lifetime travelling around the globe is laughable. My brothers and sister (70's) haven't been further than France!

But it has to be the boomers' fault. Didn't you get the memo?
crackofdoom · 13/09/2021 15:41

Leaving aside all the knee jerk defensiveness and logical fallacies because I can’t be arsed to engage today (“the plane will still fly without you on it”. Yeah, with no passengers empty planes will carry on whizzing round the sky ad infinitum,sure they will 😆), why is it that you think the air circulation on planes is better than that on trains? Surely, at the very least, passengers on trains are less crammed in? And trains stop en route and open the doors, letting loads of fresh air in.

I never really understand those who are so attached to flying for pleasure, anyway. You enjoy being pushed around like cattle for a couple of hours pre boarding and taking your boots off at the security check before being crammed in like sardines with nowhere to go in the event of screaming babies- I’ll be relaxing and enjoying the countryside from my spacious train seat before sauntering off to the bar 🥂Cheers!

Tal45 · 13/09/2021 15:42

I only have one child and don't drive so I'll be flying abroad at least twice a year for as long as I can and feeling no guilt. If you don't want to do it though then there's nothing forcing you to. I wouldn't take a cruise though, those things really are awful IMO, almost no benefit to local populations, producing huge amounts of waste, damaging reefs etc etc.

China currently emit 28 times the amount of CO2 that the UK does and the US 15 times the amount, so until they sort themselves out I think the rest of us are pretty much just wasting our time attempting to do anything when it comes to CO2 emissions.
www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emissions

CatsArePeople · 13/09/2021 15:42

I went on a Uk cruise in
July, it was a 10/10 holiday, no faff, just a brilliant holiday.

Was it with P&O? Was it normal like it was before?

Frazzled2207 · 13/09/2021 15:44

i'm pretty much on the same page as you OP, and my husband certainly is. He decided a few years ago that he would never fly again .He has since softened a bit.
Covid just makes it too tricky and we've not left the country for 3 years but hope to next year. In our view if the trip is going to be a positive educational and fun experience for our kids it's worth getting on a plane, probably once a year max. We also have friends abroad that we want to visit so that is justifiable too. It is just about doable by train (thought a lot more expensive) so we think we'll train one way and get a flight back.

But to go and just sit on a sun lounger in the company of lots of other brits, we don't think we can justify that anymore (and wouldn't enjoy it anyway don't think). We own an electric car and hope to take that on a road trip round europe at some point and I don't see the ethical issue with that at all.

We have made a lot of other changes to our lifestyle and I think now comfortable with the idea that flying occasionally to do something special, is justifiable to us.

The biggest issue about flying is the 5% of people who take over 90% of the flights, flying dozens of times every year. there needs to be some kind of ban or tax on that. One return flight every year or two? justifiable IMO.

HarebrightCedarmoon · 13/09/2021 15:45

Well we certainly didn't start the fire. For an A-Level project in 1994 I wrote a children's book on environmental issues. Successive generations have known about it for a long time. A bit facetious to say that Gen X's love of flying has caused climate change disaster.