To think the royal family are a bloody embarrassment

[MariaAngustias]

Just that - why are we paying for this bunch when we could be spending the money on essential services? Let the Queen continue then after her just get rid of the whole bloody lot of them. We have and alleged paedo, a whinging multi millionaire in his 30's moaning constantly, an allegedly corrupt heir to the throne meeting dodgy russians for money....... just go, enough. Seriously - this is all Jeremy Kyle for poshos.

Splindoctor You really think they do it out of a sense of duty? Wow.

In my case it’s weary reluctance to see a country that’s already on its knees go through all expense and trouble that disentangling all the constitutional ramifications would cause. We haven’t even begun the process caused by Brexit and the last thing we need is another major national upheaval.

Okay I get that.

It doesn’t strike me as a great reason though. We can acknowledge that they’d be difficult to remove while also conceding that they are an anachronistic government for modern society.

What positives are there to keeping them? Rather than negatives to dismantling them?

@ponyexpress22

*How many primary schools, hospitals, boring repetitive stuff do you do out of a sense of duty pony? Pure jealousy of rich folk*

If I was on the same income as Princess Ann I'd open a library, school, hospital or whatever 7 days a week. Why on earth am I jealous. What a bizarre thought.

But who would turn out to see you?

If I was born to the queen probably the exact same amount. If you were born to the queen equally so. Don't you see, it's all about accident of birth. Or are you thinking they have special powers?

Aye that must be it. Either that or their charm. [

@ponyexpress22

If I was born to the queen probably the exact same amount. If you were born to the queen equally so. Don't you see, it's all about accident of birth. Or are you thinking they have special powers?

No I didn't mean that you would be royalty. If you were just you as you are or an elected official.

The sort of people who come are usually the cap doffing fawning ones who think the royals are their betters. They wouldn't be interested in lowly little me. Mind you if was a Kardashian they'd come too. People are easily taken in.

What positives are there to keeping them?

I guess the fact that polls continually show that the majority of the population supports a monarchy is one. Obviously that’s open to change, particularly as support increases with age. And undeniably the Andrew debacle will have an impact. Only time will tell whether it’s a lasting one or a blip.

I guess the fact that polls continually show that the majority of the population supports a monarchy is one.

Okay. I guess.

It’s not indicative of any positive contribution they make though. For all we know, people are saying this because, like you, they simply don’t want change.

To rephrase another way, if we were to conceive of a form of government applicable to the 21st century, from scratch, would we land on the monarchy as it’s delivered by the Windsors?

Here's the court circular for 1 October 2019 to 4 December 2019 for Kate . The payment for this being unlimited wealth and soft power is a pretty good exchange!

1 October: 2 meetings, 2 receptions
17 October: 7 events in Pakistan
5 November: 1 meeting in the morning
6 November: 1 reception with outgoing CEO of Royal Foundation in afternoon
15 November: received outgoing CEO of one of the charities she's patron of, visited charity in the afternoon
18 November: Royal Variety Performance in the evening
20 November: 2 meetings, President of Bhutan visited
22 November: 1 meeting in morning
26/27 November: Two days spent with a maternity hospital in London
4 December: visited Peterley Manor Farm, Great Missenden

if we were to conceive of a form of government applicable to the 21st century, from scratch, would we land on the monarchy as it’s delivered by the Windsors?

No, we wouldn’t but you could apply that reasoning to any of our historic institutions. Because of our antiquated and unrepresentative voting system, the only real example of democracy in our history is the Brexit referendum. Every general election sees a government that more people have voted against than for, even when there’s a landslide. There’s very little that’s fit for purpose.

"the constitutional ramifications that would cause'... Like actually writing a constitution?

I think because we've always had them, and we've been led to believe we need them. A form of brainwashing in a way.....and then some people really believe they bring in the tourists. But I do believe the tide is turning. We should look to Ireland to see how well a presidency works.

@Blossomtoes

What positives are there to keeping them?

I guess the fact that polls continually show that the majority of the population supports a monarchy is one. Obviously that’s open to change, particularly as support increases with age. And undeniably the Andrew debacle will have an impact. Only time will tell whether it’s a lasting one or a blip.

Is that really a positive?

Yes, people support them but they support them because they're taken in by the PR.

Likewise when you say you don't want more upheaval. I can understand that, but it's not a positive reason.

Some people say they're good for tourism - but that doesn't stand up to scrutiny and is more PR.

When you look at the court circular, duty is obviously interspersed with plenty of time not spent on duties.

We need a head of state. Yes. However, a monarch with several state owned palaces, their family and the families of their decendents being paid for, power to have legislation changed in their favour, power to lobby government, access to art, jewellery, etc. that no one else has access to, the ability to have their wills closed, lack of scrutiny into their finances, and so on and so forth is not the kind of head of state we need.

There’s very little that’s fit for purpose.

On that we can most definitely agree!

There’s very little that’s fit for purpose.

And we don’t believe in reform …

@ponyexpress22

The sort of people who come are usually the cap doffing fawning ones who think the royals are their betters. They wouldn't be interested in lowly little me. Mind you if was a Kardashian they'd come too. People are easily taken in.

This always comes up. I'm a plain speaking business owner. I don't doff my cap to anyone. Yet I've got a photo on my wall of my father receiving a prize from Prince Charles. It was a fun and hilarious occasion.

It would appear not. I’d very much like to see our electoral system reformed so it delivered real democracy. I’m pretty tired of being disenfranchised because I live in a safe seat.

@santaslittlehohoho

Well the money comes from the crown estate doesn't it? Wasn't it something crazy like nearly 400 million a year the crown estate makes, then the royal family gets a portion for expenses (staff, travel, maintenance of property) then 80% odd is surrendered to the government? Plus the money from things like palace gift shops / crown estate fees (from visitors) they actually generate way more than they cost, contributing billions to the economy through tourists etc

The Crown estates are our land and coastal waters. They're making a fortune from something that would return to national ownership if we got rid of them.

It's nonsense to say they make money for the country. They take a huge cut from public money. Plus, it's not as if they invite tourists in for a cup of tea. We'd still make money without them.

It's embarrassing that anyone can justify having a constitutional monarchy for the sake of tourism.

Derxa Ok fine, a lot are cap doffers though. No more to be said. The majority on here share my views anyway. So you're in the minority on here, sorry.

Ok Blossomtoes, well for electoral reform to occur, one of the first things to go has to be the Privy Council and its 650 members, through which the queen conducts 19th -century rituals and influences Parliament while pretending she doesn't. Remove that, along with the royal assents/licences to pass backdoor legislation, and her position as obsolete landgrabbing drain on the taxpayer becomes even more apparent.

Whichever way you look at it, the RF is no longer viable.

Oh and Prince Charles doesn't impress me in the slightest.

@ponyexpress22

Derxa Ok fine, a lot are cap doffers though. No more to be said. The majority on here share my views anyway. So you're in the minority on here, sorry.

I'm always in the minority on MN about most things. MN is not representative of the views of the UK. Sorry

@ponyexpress22

Oh and Prince Charles doesn't impress me in the slightest.

List of people impressed by PC:

1. Camilla pb.
2. ...
3. ...
4. ...

@ponyexpress22

Oh and Prince Charles doesn't impress me in the slightest.

But you don't get it. It's not that he as a person is particularly impressive. However he espouses causes which are dear to me. Currently he's focusing on food waste in this country, family farms and sustainability. Things that you probably don't give a shit about.