To wish I’d had my kids earlier?

[40220s]

My mum was 35 when she had me. She died when I was 16, and I had my first baby at 40. My dad died when I was 30.

One of my friends at school got pregnant at university and I remember my dad making some comment about being glad it wasn’t me. But I look at her now and it got me thinking. If I’d had my first baby at 20 and my mum had me at 20 … maybe there’s something in doing it that way, as you’re more likely to have extensive support from family.

Does anyone else think that this might be a ‘better’ way than the middle class approved route of kids in your 30s?

Its probably better to live with parents with a baby

The plan that you'll just live with your parents and they can help out with the baby will be challenging, if the parents were looking forward to their freedom in their early 40s, like many people on this thread have said.

Let's say you have your first child at 16/17. You get to live at home rent free. Your parents help you financially. You get free education in this country, and free/heavily subsidised childcare. When you're 18, you are entitled to UC, and when you start work/further study, you get more subsidised childcare. You're child gets a free school place and you had living grandparents. Extra loans and grants for having a child in study. Child benefit.

Lets say you have your first child at 16...you don't get to live at home rent free because your mother says no. Your parents don't help you financially because they can't afford to, they can't babysit as they work or are disabled so you can't go to school and you leave with a couple of GCSE's, if you're lucky. You get a crappy zero hour job until you have another kid, you never do any further study, your life sucks and then your kid had a kid at 16 and you're stuck raising that kid to as you want better for yours than you had.

More likely than your pie in the sky brilliant idea for children to have children.

This is very strange to read as I lost my mum at 17, my dad at 31 and had my first child at 40. I've never seen anyone who has lost parents at the same age I did, no matter had their child at the same age. It's tough losing your parents so young and I'm sorry you had to go through it.

I sometimes wish I had kids years ago because there a chance my daughter won't get a sibling because of my age, but I also remind myself that it took longer to get to a point where I was settled enough in my life and career to buy a home and start a family because I was doing a lot on my own with no family. It feels like starting a few steps behind everyone because you're missing the support and guidance others have. So it's been hard work, but I'm really glad I managed to get here. My daughter is fantastic and I hope all be lucky enough to have another, but if we don't, she's enough.

16/17 is mad to me - education not finished, only just out of childhood yourself, not even a taste of freedom. Im glad it worked for you though!

@ManifestDestinee that was quite a nasty post but the ‘worst case scenario’ for somebody 40+ would be a lot shorter - egg quality has diminished, no baby, the end.

On a balance having my own family is more important to me than a career. So I would choose the teen mum scenario, albeit reluctantly. Plus you can work on a career if you really want to, you can’t work on your fertility after it’s vanished.

Which is why I think balance - late 20s, early 30s - is best if the circumstances are right.

There's pros and cons to having kids younger and older.
I was 21 when I had dd1. Just Had dd2 at 25.
At the time with my first I did feel young, although very mature and financially stable etc. I wouldn't wanted to have done it any younger and it was unplanned. Dd2 was planned.

I feel I have a lot of energy to give my children. My oldest will be 18 in our 40th year. We always joke that those will be our prime years. Planning to buy a little sports car etc and go travelling when they've both gone to uni or moved out. I also think it will work well as we should be better off financially too.
However, we love our little family dynamic and by no means wishing their childhood away. I hope that being close in age our children will be really close to us.
I'm very glad I had them when I did and wouldn't change it for anything now.

@ManifestDestinee that was quite a nasty post but the ‘worst case scenario’ for somebody 40+ would be a lot shorter - egg quality has diminished, no baby, the end

It wasn't nasty at all, it was needed for balance to the bizarre "have your children while you're still a child, it'll be great" post.

@dummyd then why are the children of teenage mothers less likely to have good educational outcomes, more likely to have poor health and lower life expectancy and be more likely to become teenage parents themselves?

@ManifestDestinee

Let's say you have your first child at 16/17. You get to live at home rent free. Your parents help you financially. You get free education in this country, and free/heavily subsidised childcare. When you're 18, you are entitled to UC, and when you start work/further study, you get more subsidised childcare. You're child gets a free school place and you had living grandparents. Extra loans and grants for having a child in study. Child benefit.

Lets say you have your first child at 16...you don't get to live at home rent free because your mother says no. Your parents don't help you financially because they can't afford to, they can't babysit as they work or are disabled so you can't go to school and you leave with a couple of GCSE's, if you're lucky. You get a crappy zero hour job until you have another kid, you never do any further study, your life sucks and then your kid had a kid at 16 and you're stuck raising that kid to as you want better for yours than you had.

More likely than your pie in the sky brilliant idea for children to have children.

Way to be an ass. I just described my own living situation and even put a disclaimer for people who lack comprehension that I'm not advocating teen pregnancy. Young parents are perfectly able to have kids, even teenagers, and be unscathed.

My point is, finances are not an issue. You're coming across as resentful now. Why put down young parents? Bit of a chip on your shoulder there @ManifestDestinee

@Realyorkshiretea

16/17 is mad to me - education not finished, only just out of childhood yourself, not even a taste of freedom. Im glad it worked for you though!

@ManifestDestinee that was quite a nasty post but the ‘worst case scenario’ for somebody 40+ would be a lot shorter - egg quality has diminished, no baby, the end.

On a balance having my own family is more important to me than a career. So I would choose the teen mum scenario, albeit reluctantly. Plus you can work on a career if you really want to, you can’t work on your fertility after it’s vanished.

Which is why I think balance - late 20s, early 30s - is best if the circumstances are right.

My anecdote was 16/17 because that's what i was, but the same applies to all young parents (so up to about 25). Basically, there's help available in Britain in 2021. To can be financially screwed as a more established adult vs in your 20s.

I just don't get why some people are so adamant we're all suffering and sad with our lives and in poverty. Not the case.

Even my very strongly religious, non white parents let me stay at home. This isn't the 1960s where unwed mothers are shipped off.

[quote ManifestDestinee]**@ManifestDestinee that was quite a nasty post but the ‘worst case scenario’ for somebody 40+ would be a lot shorter - egg quality has diminished, no baby, the end

It wasn't nasty at all, it was needed for balance to the bizarre "have your children while you're still a child, it'll be great" post. [/quote]
I don’t think she meant that. She was countering the idea that ALL teenage mums slob around estates all day drinking white lightening. She may be an unusually successful young mum, but given the number of unusually fit and spritely 90 year olds mentioned on these types of threads, don’t you think it works both ways? Of course a similar response to the ‘my mum had me at 45 and is still going strong at 103’ could be, ‘have children when you’re an OAP, it’ll be great’. Just needlessly mean.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@dummyd then why are the children of teenage mothers less likely to have good educational outcomes, more likely to have poor health and lower life expectancy and be more likely to become teenage parents themselves?[/quote]
Most teenage parents are troubled in other ways. I'm not staying it doesn't happen, that's dumb. Many will have lower outcomes. And IMO a lot of teen and young parents poor outcomes (for those that have poor outcomes) is due to negative opinions around them. Put downs, and bring tops you'll never finish college, school, university- so might as well drop out. That you'll always be poor, not having anyone to guide you, more than anything.

Those who do, would have low outcomes anyway unfortunately. The resources are out there in society.

My anecdote was 16/17 because that's what i was, but the same applies to all young parents (so up to about 25). Basically, there's help available in Britain in 2021

But it doesn't apply, at all. There is help available in theory, but practically there is little. If a child of 16 has a baby they are going to want huge support from family, and if they don't have it, they are fucked. You clearly did, but many don't.

Thank you @Realyorkshiretea

It's really not hard to get. Doom and gloom helps absolutely nobody. It's not said I'm the best interests of young girls and women who are pregnant or mothers.

Also, clinging onto the teen part is a massive red herring when I already said I was basing off my own situation (teen parenthood) which is a younger age and therefore 'worse'.

I understand the argument for having babies in your 20s (as opposed to late 30s/ 40s). Defo good for health and if you want a large family.

But can we all agree having a baby at 16 isn't optimal. Sure there are girls (because at that age they are girls, not women) of that age who make it work, and good for them. But it's not optimal.

Also, clinging onto the teen part is a massive red herring when I already said I was basing off my own situation (teen parenthood) which is a younger age and therefore 'worse'

You don't need the quote marks around worse. It IS worse. Doom and gloom, if you want to call it that is essential when talking to teens, if it stops even one from getting pregnant. Children having children is a terrible idea, which we don't need to pretend is ok.
You might have done alright with it, but the majority don't. It's not something to be recommended to anyone.

@ManifestDestinee

Also, clinging onto the teen part is a massive red herring when I already said I was basing off my own situation (teen parenthood) which is a younger age and therefore 'worse'

You don't need the quote marks around worse. It IS worse. Doom and gloom, if you want to call it that is essential when talking to teens, if it stops even one from getting pregnant. Children having children is a terrible idea, which we don't need to pretend is ok.
You might have done alright with it, but the majority don't. It's not something to be recommended to anyone.

Firstly, 18+ aren’t ‘children’. 16 year olds aren’t either, but they’re only just ‘legal’. You’re using silly language to make the scenario sound as bad as possible.

Personally I think a couple in their mid 40s having a first baby is a terrible idea - the baby will probably end up an only child with elderly parents by the time they’re 30. Nobody to remember their childhood with, and if they’re not settled at that point they will have no close blood family to be there for them during good times & bad. You might get the odd one that does alright with it but 🤷🏼‍♀️

So there’s some doom and gloom for you. At least with teen mums, they’re likely to see their kids through to middle age & give them siblings.

@Realyorkshiretea there's something that makes me really uncomfortable about your posts and the language you use...you sound like a brood mare and as if you think all women should be that

This thread is so depressing! My mum had me at 36, I had my second at 36. I only started feeling guilty about this when I joined MN! My mum is very active with my children, but my 82 year old dad took on my first when I went back to work (only thing is he won't chamge a nappy so someone has to be around!). One thing I would say though is outlook/personality has a lot to do with it. A lot of the people bitter about older parents on this thread seemed to have very old fashioned outlooks which can be stiffling/embarrassing to teenagers.

[quote Rozziie]@Realyorkshiretea there's something that makes me really uncomfortable about your posts and the language you use...you sound like a brood mare and as if you think all women should be that [/quote]
I was merely flipping manifest’s post to show how nasty it is in reverse.

@Realyorkshiretea I meant all your posts. You have an attitude of someone who thinks deep down that women's sole (or at least main) purpose is to breed, and that should be focused on at all costs, at the expense of everything else.

I had my DS at 21and had tons of energy. I went to university at the same time and .angel a career. I lived being his mum and we are best friends now I'm 60.

[quote Rozziie]@Realyorkshiretea I meant all your posts. You have an attitude of someone who thinks deep down that women's sole (or at least main) purpose is to breed, and that should be focused on at all costs, at the expense of everything else.[/quote]
in almost every post I have written, I have qualified it with something like ‘IF women want a family’ or ‘IF they want multiple kids’. I’m under no illusion that all women are destined to be mothers, far from it. I have an only who will probably stay an only for medical reasons, so I would be rubbish as a brood mare anyway.

I think your view on what I’m saying is testament to the fact it had been drummed into women that they must prize money and material possessions over relationships and having a family, because to think otherwise is ‘regressive’ and ‘going back to the 50s’. The fact is biology doesn’t care about your ideas, and this mentality is a con, as evidenced by several women on this thread who feel they were pressured into prioritising work at the expense of their own happiness.

YANBU, my mum got married young and had us in her early twenties. It's always been brilliant having a younger mother. She was only 53 when I had DD1 at 30yo and was an enormous help. We've had amazing holidays together and really enjoy each other's company. That can happen at any age of course but didn't seem to be too common when I was younger. For example my friends with older parents never wanted to holiday with them when we were at uni/early twenties but I jumped at the chance and went all over the world with my mum.

There's always downsides to every situation though. The likelihood of your relationship lasting when you have DC in your late teens/early twenties is quite slim I imagine (my parents divorced when I was mid-twenties). There's also a confidence that comes with being an older mother, my mum was brilliant and confident as a mother but she wasn't confident in herself and I think that rubbed off on us. Also finances were an issue and that also rubs off on children and has an impact on confidence/self-esteem.

Still when it comes down to it nothing is greater than having as much time as you can with the people you love. However I wouldn't wallow too much as there's nothing can be done to change these things - focus on the positives of being a more mature, financially stable and wise mum to your DC!

[quote Rozziie]@Realyorkshiretea there's something that makes me really uncomfortable about your posts and the language you use...you sound like a brood mare and as if you think all women should be that [/quote]
That’s nonsense. Advocating parenthood at an age when your fertility is at its height and you’re as physically fit as you’re ever going to be is just common sense. She’s hardly recommending that people start popping babies out the minute they’re able and continue through to the menopause.

I had my DD at 25. My mum had me at 25 and her mum had her at 25.

So, to summarise, 25 is a pretty good age to have children!