to think "no woman aborts a baby lightly" is untrue and unhelpful?

[ZoeCM]

I've noticed this phrase being used a lot following the news about Texas. I'm pro-choice, and I don't think it helps our cause.

There are women who have abortions lightly. It's not a myth started by the Daily Mail. I don't even think it's necessarily even that rare.

There are women who actively want a baby in the near future, are in stable relationships, aren't even using contraception, but still decide to abort because the timing isn't 100% perfect: they don't want to cancel their holiday abroad, or give birth until the extension on their house is finished. Trust me, it happens. Does anyone really think those women agonised over whether the holiday/extension was more important than the baby, before painfully including that abortion was the only option? Of course not. And that's fine. Women shouldn't have to ask if their reasons for aborting are "good enough".

Then there are the women who are on their fifth or sixth abortion - workers at abortion clinics will confirm that this does happen. It seems unlikely that those women agonised over their decisions either, because presumably they would have put some long-term contraception in place to stop it happening again. I expect most of them come from pretty traumatic backgrounds, but that doesn't mean their decision to abort isn't made perfectly casually.

This phrase is a gift for pro-lifers, because it's so easily disproved: many of them will have stories about women they know who've had abortions without a second thought. A better argument would simply be that it doesn't matter why a woman wants an abortion: she should be allowed one because it's her body and her choice.

Personally I’d much prefer that anyone who didn’t want a child didn’t have one, we see all the time on here how difficult pregnancy and the early months and years are. Facing that with an unwanted child is going to be devastating for both the mother , the child and anyone who cares about them.

It is right that abortion be available, but equating terminating a pregnancy to dealing with a toothache is abhorrent.

Why? It's a simple medical procedure. It takes away the potential for the pregnancy to progress.

Abortion should be available and legal for all women but I also think it's morally wrong to terminate a pregnancy because you couldn't be bothered to wear a condom, for example.

@EdgeOfACoin

Some people are very uncomfortable with the thought of terminating a human life. I am one of them. I take an equally dim view of men who have sex with women and then try to pressure them into having an abortion.

I also think that in the modern world, with the various contraception options open to us, there is little excuse for getting pregnant accidentally.

Do I think abortion should be illegal? No. Do I think abortion should not be trivialised, that the termination of a human life is more significant than ending a toothache and that abortion is not just another form of contraception? Yes.

You can accuse my attitudes of coming from the 1950s if you wish, but oh well. This is a matter of conscience for me. It is possible to understand the reasons for needing legal abortion while still holding a negative view of the process.

And once again, for the people at the back, I do believe abortion needs to be legal to an extent.

But while I believe many women agonise over their decisions, there are certainly those who do not.

I agree entirely; you expressed my views perfectly.

I’ve had one. It wasn’t a hard decision at all for me, I knew from when I had an inkling I was pregnant, what I would do if I was. No hand wringing, no trauma. Of course this may ‘reflect poorly’ on me in the eyes of those that wanted me to have agonized, but…so what? They can think what they like, it doesn’t oblige me to care for their opinion.

I thought this was the case but I was talking to a woman in confidence that I was struggling to conceive, having never been pregnant. She told me she’d had 3 abortions. One with an ex and two with her dh. The first two, fine. But the last one was months before she fell pregnant with her first dc and only because she / they (not sure it was him as well) wanted to move to a detached rather than a 3 bed semi.

Putting aside the fact it was nasty to talk about her fertility to a woman struggling to conceive, I do not get she didn’t see that her children she went on to have could easily have been aborted and not exist.

I obviously didn’t say anything and I am pro choice btw. Perhaps it is because I struggled so much to have a baby that I just can’t get why someone would risk their fertility in this way. Abortions do occasionally make women infertile.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

It is right that abortion be available, but equating terminating a pregnancy to dealing with a toothache is abhorrent.

Why? It's a simple medical procedure. It takes away the potential for the pregnancy to progress.

It's not taking away "the potential for the pregnancy to progress." The pregnancy has progressed. It's ending a human life. However you feel about that is beside the point - but at least own what you're (general "you") doing.

You mention 'our cause'. Who is we and what is the cause.

@Chocaholic9

Abortion should be available and legal for all women but I also think it's morally wrong to terminate a pregnancy because you couldn't be bothered to wear a condom, for example.

So what though?

Has anyone who is contemplating an abortion specifically sought out your opinion?

If not, just mind your own business.

I’ve never thought about it that way before. Very interesting point OP.

Mind you, I don’t think many women have abortions lightly. I think for what ever reason the vast majority who have one take it seriously.

I have a friend who had an abortion about 20 years ago. It was 100% an unwanted pregnancy yet she grieves it every anniversary when it comes around.

She's relieved she never had the child yet also sad in an enduring way. I suspect it's common for some women to have both positive and negative feelings about having an abortion.

@Chocaholic9

Abortion should be available and legal for all women but I also think it's morally wrong to terminate a pregnancy because you couldn't be bothered to wear a condom, for example.

So you’d think it preferable for an unwanted child to be born? What would life be like for that child, do you think?

equating terminating a pregnancy to dealing with a toothache is abhorrent.

Hmmm... I used to think like this (was raised Catholic so little choice there!) but thinking logically a termination at say 6/7 weeks is not a "baby" there is no sentient being that feels pain or has any awareness of what's going on. If the woman wants the abortion then literally no one is harmed and it really is no different to extracting a tooth. It's a crass comparison for sure and the terminology would make you wince but it's not wrong. It's the narrative around the act that makes it sound "abhorrent" but in reality there's not a major difference.

I think you are right, it is a damaging argument. It justifies pro-life sentiment that abortion is bad and wrong. We have to justify the action with trauma to try and make pro-choice an acceptable view point.

I'm incredibly lucky that I have never had a contraception failure. That or I'm infertile - I've not yet started my TTC journey (soon hopefully). But if I had become pregnant at any time prior to the last 2 years, I would have had an abortion, no questions, no moral struggle, no trauma. And for "poor enough reasons" such as holidays, job probations, not being married, doing house renovations. I'm not a bad person, and I think I'll make an excellent mother - now my circumstances are more suited to what I want from motherhood.

I don't see a bunch of cells as a baby. The potential for one yes, but not a conscious being. I'm not saying I'd give birth to a full term baby and then smother it in the night (which plenty of women did back when births didn't have to be registered and contraception didn't exist, I might add!) An abortion is a totally different scenario, and it should be ONLY about the woman, her body and her opinion on the matter. Full stop.

It's not taking away "the potential for the pregnancy to progress." The pregnancy has progressed

It is taking away the potential for it to progress

It's just as untrue as "my body, my choice" ... hell no! "Baby's body, not your choice."

It's when you have sex that you can (potentially) choose if you want a baby or not. The choice is already done.

@TunMahla

I think taking abortion lightly reflects on those women very poorly and this behaviour should be stigmatised. You are playing with another human life. But nothing will surprise me about this country anymore where a lot of women prefer to be mothers to their fur babies instead...

And I think attitudes like yours should be stigmatised. How fucking dare you?

@Viviennemary

You mention 'our cause'. Who is we and what is the cause.

*I'm pro-choice, and I don't think it helps our cause. * I assume from the OP that who is people who are pro choice and the cause is to make sure women and whoever needs it have safe and accessible access to an abortion.

Yeah sorry, I don't think you should be able to end a life because its not 100% convenient for you. That's like getting you'd dog put down because you don't want to pay for a boarder.

I think abortions should be available, but I also think it shouldn't be an easy decision and you shouldn't be able to do it as late as England allows. But I also think texas has gone too far the other end and it's not practical to meet the deadline.

@Unicornish - people are providing their opinions on the matter here. I have the right to share my thoughts just as others are. Mind your own business, please.

@DustyMaiden

I think anyone that chooses not to use contraception but has abortions repeatedly must have a screw lose.

I agree with that but if someone is careless on one occasion I wouldn't blame them for having an abortion.

@Mummyoflittledragon

I thought this was the case but I was talking to a woman in confidence that I was struggling to conceive, having never been pregnant. She told me she’d had 3 abortions. One with an ex and two with her dh. The first two, fine. But the last one was months before she fell pregnant with her first dc and only because she / they (not sure it was him as well) wanted to move to a detached rather than a 3 bed semi.

Putting aside the fact it was nasty to talk about her fertility to a woman struggling to conceive, I do not get she didn’t see that her children she went on to have could easily have been aborted and not exist.

I obviously didn’t say anything and I am pro choice btw. Perhaps it is because I struggled so much to have a baby that I just can’t get why someone would risk their fertility in this way. Abortions do occasionally make women infertile.

I too am struggling with infertility.

In fact, last year I had a surgical management of miscarriage at a BPAS clinic.

I spent a day sitting with these women who have abortions, whilst grieving for my own much loved and wanted baby.

And you know what? I felt like we were kindred spirits. We were in a position that we didn't want to be in and we were at the clinic to resolve the problem.

Their pregnancies had nothing to do with my own miscarriage. I simply wished that none of us had needed to go to the clinic that day.

I'm 100% pro choice - "As early as possible or as late as necessary". It's up to the individual woman when or why she has an abortion.

Absolutely this. For any reason, no questions asked.

I had a stress free abortion. I got pregnant and immediately I found out I booked it. No emotional issues,

I hate this too. In my experience, it wasn't a remotely difficult decision. I was pregnant, and I didn't want to be. No crying or agonising or moral weighing up - I needed the available form of healthcare and I got it.

The 'nobody does it lightly' is silently followed by '...because we know it's hard/bad to do, and therefore you need to have a really good reason'. It's yet another moral judgement made even by those who think they're pro-choice, but they're actually pro-choice as long as the woman has an excuse that they find valid. That's why I hate it.

Abortion is not bad.

Forcing someone to become a mother when they don't want to, for WHATEVER reason, however frivolous or serious it is, is bad. Making choices or judgements about someone else's body because of your own moral code is bad. But having an abortion when you want one is not bad.

As early as possible, as late as is necessary (and 'not wanting to be a mother', for ANY reason, is a necessity).