to think "no woman aborts a baby lightly" is untrue and unhelpful?

[ZoeCM]

I've noticed this phrase being used a lot following the news about Texas. I'm pro-choice, and I don't think it helps our cause.

There are women who have abortions lightly. It's not a myth started by the Daily Mail. I don't even think it's necessarily even that rare.

There are women who actively want a baby in the near future, are in stable relationships, aren't even using contraception, but still decide to abort because the timing isn't 100% perfect: they don't want to cancel their holiday abroad, or give birth until the extension on their house is finished. Trust me, it happens. Does anyone really think those women agonised over whether the holiday/extension was more important than the baby, before painfully including that abortion was the only option? Of course not. And that's fine. Women shouldn't have to ask if their reasons for aborting are "good enough".

Then there are the women who are on their fifth or sixth abortion - workers at abortion clinics will confirm that this does happen. It seems unlikely that those women agonised over their decisions either, because presumably they would have put some long-term contraception in place to stop it happening again. I expect most of them come from pretty traumatic backgrounds, but that doesn't mean their decision to abort isn't made perfectly casually.

This phrase is a gift for pro-lifers, because it's so easily disproved: many of them will have stories about women they know who've had abortions without a second thought. A better argument would simply be that it doesn't matter why a woman wants an abortion: she should be allowed one because it's her body and her choice.

@Josette77

I had an abortion young. No trauma. My best friend had two, no ahame. No agonizing. She was just young.

I was the same. I had an abortion at 18 because I was just about to start a course and didn't want anything getting in the way of my plans. I didn't agonise over it at all .

I don't see why we should have to paint this decision with a broad brush, implying that all women "should" feel the same about it.

I’ve had two abortions - one as a teenager and one as a middle aged woman with older children (including one with SN). Both times my contraception failed. Both times I knew immediately upon discovering I was pregnant that I would be having an abortion. Neither were difficult decisions. Both procedures were straightforward, and I felt nothing but immense relief afterwards. I wasn’t traumatised and didn’t experience any dark night of the soul moments. I was just bloody glad I didn’t have to go through with an unwanted pregnancy.

It’s almost taboo to say that, but I’m sure there are many others like me.

I don't know anyone who would take the decision to abort lightly.

I suppose that doesn't mean that such people don't exist.

For the record, I am also pro choice and I know that accidental pregnancies can and do occur, so hard decisions can need to be made.

I had an abortion. I wouldn’t say I took it ‘lightly’ but I did not agonise over the decision, and I have never had a moments regret over it. It absolutely was the right thing to do, and I feel no shame.
I agree with you OP. Abortions shouldn’t only be considered ok when they’ve been traumatic for the woman having it.

@TakeMeBackTo1980

I stumbled across a forum which was for people suffering from 'gender disappointment' . Some of the ladies on there would get pregnant, have a harmony test done to find out the sex of the fetus, and of it was the 'wrong' sex they abort and try again. No skin off their nose, no harm done attitude.

That is horrible

@TunMahla

Five minutes after posting my reply and already so many notifications. I just find that abortion pushers really like for everyone to approve of abortion... It is like they almost know something is wrong with that attitude so feel uncomfortable with anyone disagreeing lol.

What is an 'abortion pusher'?

I don't know anyone who would take the decision to abort lightly.

How do you know you don't?! I can imagine my friends and family would think the same about me yet when I was in that position I didn't hesitate. I'd bet my house there's women you know who've had a termination you know nothing about.

@TunMahla

Five minutes after posting my reply and already so many notifications. I just find that abortion pushers really like for everyone to approve of abortion... It is like they almost know something is wrong with that attitude so feel uncomfortable with anyone disagreeing lol.

Acutally Tun, you will find I don't give a flying fuck whether you think of me 'poorly' or not. I've no interest in the opinions of forced birthers.

Abortion pushers you mean people who want themselves and others to have a choice?Unlike forced birthers who think a baby should be punishment for enjoying having a sex life.

@TunMahla

Five minutes after posting my reply and already so many notifications. I just find that abortion pushers really like for everyone to approve of abortion... It is like they almost know something is wrong with that attitude so feel uncomfortable with anyone disagreeing lol.

What is an abortion pusher exactly? I’m assuming you’ve never had a termination yourself so it’s really not your place to project onto others what they think about theirs.

What is an 'abortion pusher'?

Stands on street corners near girl's schools and River Island peddling cut price mifepristone?

I agree and I think it plays into the hands of the 'pro-life' lot that women should feel shame and regret about abortion.

@TakeMeBackTo1980

I stumbled across a forum which was for people suffering from 'gender disappointment' . Some of the ladies on there would get pregnant, have a harmony test done to find out the sex of the fetus, and of it was the 'wrong' sex they abort and try again. No skin off their nose, no harm done attitude.

That's pretty awful, but I can never understand how people can be against abortion in such cases - it would clearly be a much worse outcome for that woman to have a baby that she wants so little. The only person I feel sorry for in that story is the babies who are the 'right' sex and get kept. I used to know someone (a GP!) who would rant on about women who had abortions because they thought the pill would make them fat and how it shouldn't be allowed but had no answer when I asked whether they thought it would be better for anyone it those women who she thought were so awful/shallow/stupid were forced to become mothers.

The term "abortion pusher". Fucking hell.

Some people are very uncomfortable with the thought of terminating a human life. I am one of them. I take an equally dim view of men who have sex with women and then try to pressure them into having an abortion.

I also think that in the modern world, with the various contraception options open to us, there is little excuse for getting pregnant accidentally.

Do I think abortion should be illegal? No. Do I think abortion should not be trivialised, that the termination of a human life is more significant than ending a toothache and that abortion is not just another form of contraception? Yes.

You can accuse my attitudes of coming from the 1950s if you wish, but oh well. This is a matter of conscience for me. It is possible to understand the reasons for needing legal abortion while still holding a negative view of the process.

And once again, for the people at the back, I do believe abortion needs to be legal to an extent.

But while I believe many women agonise over their decisions, there are certainly those who do not.

@TunMahla

Five minutes after posting my reply and already so many notifications. I just find that abortion pushers really like for everyone to approve of abortion... It is like they almost know something is wrong with that attitude so feel uncomfortable with anyone disagreeing lol.

What, everyone picks holes in your comment and you take that as secret agreement? No wonder you come up with such shash if that's what you consider a thought process.

Will you answer the question about what judgement you place on the men involved?

But while I believe many women agonise over their decisions, there are certainly those who do not.

How much must a woman agonise before her abortion becomes ok with you?

Isn't right to choose enough? The reason and feeling/lack of behind it is irrelevant.

@EdgeOfACoin

Some people are very uncomfortable with the thought of terminating a human life. I am one of them. I take an equally dim view of men who have sex with women and then try to pressure them into having an abortion.

I also think that in the modern world, with the various contraception options open to us, there is little excuse for getting pregnant accidentally.

Do I think abortion should be illegal? No. Do I think abortion should not be trivialised, that the termination of a human life is more significant than ending a toothache and that abortion is not just another form of contraception? Yes.

You can accuse my attitudes of coming from the 1950s if you wish, but oh well. This is a matter of conscience for me. It is possible to understand the reasons for needing legal abortion while still holding a negative view of the process.

And once again, for the people at the back, I do believe abortion needs to be legal to an extent.

But while I believe many women agonise over their decisions, there are certainly those who do not.

The solution to this is that you don't have an abortion and you let everyone else make their own decisions and live their own lives.

@Pedalpushers

It's the same for everything, women are only allowed to make their own choices if it is still agonising and they still conform to society ideals of femininity. Same as how child free women aren't allowed to say they don't like children and don't want anything to do with them, they must 'have thought long and hard' and chosen to 'remain dedicated aunties'.

This. You have to accept that if you agree with the principle that it is a woman’s body and a woman's right to choose, then you have to also accept that like anything else in life your choices might not be the same as anyone else’s choices, and that does not mean that anyone else’s choices are less , or indeed more, valid than yours.

@Recessed

I don't know anyone who would take the decision to abort lightly.

How do you know you don't?! I can imagine my friends and family would think the same about me yet when I was in that position I didn't hesitate. I'd bet my house there's women you know who've had a termination you know nothing about.

OK, as far as I am aware the only person in my immediate circle who ever had an abortion was in an abusive relationship and had been raped.

I am not anti abortion. I am pro choice. It is a choice that I once thought I was going to have to make, and I didn't like the possibility. Fortunately my symptoms were not caused by pregnancy, but by another underlying medical condition which had not been diagnosed until that point. So I was off the hook.

"A better argument would simply be that it doesn't matter why a woman wants an abortion: she should be allowed one because it's her body and her choice"

Absolutely right

I do agree with what you are saying OP. I think the whys and wherefores aren’t my business. Ever. It’s not my body and whether I morally agree is entirely besides the point. In fact It’s easy to be pro choice when you agree with the reason isn’t it? Poor 13 yo who’s been raped is easy to empathise with…woman of 30 who’s a millionaire on her 6th termination because suffering doesn’t use contraception isn’t so palatable. But I support each equally.

When people say ‘lightly’ the implication is the woman hasn’t thought about the consequences of continuing or not continuing with the pregnancy and that it’s just a jolly spur of the moment but of fun. It’s a means to an end for many people, but they have considered the repercussions obviously, that’s why they choose to do it.

I had a termination as a teen, and it WAS deeply traumatic, deeply upsetting and I regret it to this day, but I still believe it was the right decision as I was in no position to raise a child.

The solution to this is that you don't have an abortion and you let everyone else make their own decisions and live their own lives.

Yeah, that's why I think abortion should be legal. As I said repeatedly. Just not trivialised.

I just find it odd the way that forced birthers think their own opinions and feeling are just so much more special and important than people who are pro choice.

You know what? Supporting women's rights to make decision about their own bodies, health and lives is a matter of conscience to me too.

Your views and opinions don't trump mine. So you do you. Don't have an abortion. And back the fuck out of everyone else's lives.

It's not difficult.