to think "no woman aborts a baby lightly" is untrue and unhelpful?

[ZoeCM]

I've noticed this phrase being used a lot following the news about Texas. I'm pro-choice, and I don't think it helps our cause.

There are women who have abortions lightly. It's not a myth started by the Daily Mail. I don't even think it's necessarily even that rare.

There are women who actively want a baby in the near future, are in stable relationships, aren't even using contraception, but still decide to abort because the timing isn't 100% perfect: they don't want to cancel their holiday abroad, or give birth until the extension on their house is finished. Trust me, it happens. Does anyone really think those women agonised over whether the holiday/extension was more important than the baby, before painfully including that abortion was the only option? Of course not. And that's fine. Women shouldn't have to ask if their reasons for aborting are "good enough".

Then there are the women who are on their fifth or sixth abortion - workers at abortion clinics will confirm that this does happen. It seems unlikely that those women agonised over their decisions either, because presumably they would have put some long-term contraception in place to stop it happening again. I expect most of them come from pretty traumatic backgrounds, but that doesn't mean their decision to abort isn't made perfectly casually.

This phrase is a gift for pro-lifers, because it's so easily disproved: many of them will have stories about women they know who've had abortions without a second thought. A better argument would simply be that it doesn't matter why a woman wants an abortion: she should be allowed one because it's her body and her choice.

there is little excuse for getting pregnant accidentally.

Lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

Oh how it must be to live with Rose tinted glasses on!

I certainly don’t think abortion should be used like contraception- however I am most certainly pro choice. I have had 2, both times were failed contraception within 8 weeks start of new relationships including 1 with my now H. As my H said if men got pregnant there would be little of this handwringing about it and I personally would rather all pregnancies were wanted pregnancies, at least by the mother . I really object to the person using the term ‘abortion pusher’ — I don’t think people go out there actually pushing it— they are just pro that choice being available to women.

No excuses are needed.

I’m completely pro choice but I’m very grateful it’s a choice I’ve never had to make. One of my friends had a termination shortly after it was legalised. It wasn’t her choice, she was 16 and it was her mum’s. She’ll be 70 soon and has never got over it. Thank God, those days have gone.

@EdgeOfACoin even with all our contraceptives none are foolproof. Around 9.5 million women in the U.K. are on the pill, with a failure rate of around 2% even if used perfectly that’s still 190,000 unplanned pregnancies. That’s without other methods with different failure rates. Unplanned pregnancy is not easy to avoid.

@EdgeOfACoin

The solution to this is that you don't have an abortion and you let everyone else make their own decisions and live their own lives.

Yeah, that's why I think abortion should be legal. As I said repeatedly. Just not trivialised.

In other words, you want it to be harder one way or another.

What trivialises it? You can't force women to be traumatised by it if they're not.

@EdgeOfACoin

Some people are very uncomfortable with the thought of terminating a human life. I am one of them. I take an equally dim view of men who have sex with women and then try to pressure them into having an abortion.

I also think that in the modern world, with the various contraception options open to us, there is little excuse for getting pregnant accidentally.

Do I think abortion should be illegal? No. Do I think abortion should not be trivialised, that the termination of a human life is more significant than ending a toothache and that abortion is not just another form of contraception? Yes.

You can accuse my attitudes of coming from the 1950s if you wish, but oh well. This is a matter of conscience for me. It is possible to understand the reasons for needing legal abortion while still holding a negative view of the process.

And once again, for the people at the back, I do believe abortion needs to be legal to an extent.

But while I believe many women agonise over their decisions, there are certainly those who do not.

Isn’t it a bit windy up there on your higher moral plane?

“Little excuse for getting pregnant accidentally” apart from rape, abuse, ignorance, illness, condom malfunction.

“There are certainly those who do not” so what do you propose happens to them , and their unwanted child. Bring back the workhouse? Shame her on Facebook?

There was about an 8 year period of my life when I was either ttc or would have gone ahead with a pregnancy should one have occurred accidentally.
Before and after that I was clear I didn't want a baby so I would have had an abortion straight away. I wouldn't have agonised over the decision Though I guess in some ways that was because I was already clear that I didn't want a baby.

@HavelockVetinari

I believe that a woman's right to bodily autonomy should always trump a baby's right to life.

I also think casual abortion without it being a horrible decision is wrong - it's a baby, a human life.

Doesn't mean I'd ban abortion, but women who can kill their own baby without a moral twinge are either psychologically damaged or genuinely evil.

It’s not a baby. It’s some cells in most cases. A foetus at best.

Yanbu. I got pregnant young, no question, I was having an abortion. Although the procedure itself was awful and painful, I have no emotions toward the actual abortion itself, rarely hvae thought about it since.

@HavelockVetinari

I believe that a woman's right to bodily autonomy should always trump a baby's right to life.

I also think casual abortion without it being a horrible decision is wrong - it's a baby, a human life.

Doesn't mean I'd ban abortion, but women who can kill their own baby without a moral twinge are either psychologically damaged or genuinely evil.

Why do you think your opinion of those women is so important?

Maybe that would be your own view of yourself. Fine. Don't have an abortion. Your opinion is neither wanted nor needed in any other situations.

I worked at Planned Parenthood for 17 years. We routinely saw women who had multiple abortions. We routinely saw women who expressed no feelings of guilt or dismay over having a termination. We did not care. People terminate pregnancies for all sorts of reasons. All decisions regarding aborting a pregnancy are valid. We only cared about providing the best medical care possible. Nobody gets to decide how any woman should feel about abortion. God Help all the women in Texas.

either psychologically damaged or genuinely evil.

We walk amongst you, nurse you in hospital, teach your kids, drill your teeth, put out fires, pay our taxes.

We owe nothing to you nor does your unhinged opinion change the fact that we have a lawful right to choose.

I'm also not psychologically damaged or evil, thank you.

I think nobody actually 'likes' abortion but certainly many would have one at the drop of a hat if they felt unable, for whatever reason, to go through with a pregnancy.

I'm too old now but I can think of circumstances in which I would have needed no time or counselling or persuasion to abort.

@HavelockVetinari

I believe that a woman's right to bodily autonomy should always trump a baby's right to life.

I also think casual abortion without it being a horrible decision is wrong - it's a baby, a human life.

Doesn't mean I'd ban abortion, but women who can kill their own baby without a moral twinge are either psychologically damaged or genuinely evil.

That’s nice to hear. I had an abortion because it was an accidental pregnancy on contraception, but it was 100% emotionally, physically and financially the wrong time to have another baby. I didn’t have any moral twinges. I knew I’d made the right decision for the child I already had. But thanks for calling me evil #cheers

(FWIW even reading this thread isn’t making me feel bad because I’m very comfortable that we made the right decision at the time, and while it wasn’t a pleasant time at all, I suppose I did make the decision quite “lightly”.)

Doesn't mean I'd ban abortion, but women who can kill their own baby without a moral twinge are either psychologically damaged or genuinely evil.

Fortunately I didn't kill my own baby, I did have a procedure to get rid of an unwanted embryo from my body though and felt nothing but relief afterwards 🤷🏻‍♀️ I didn't agonise over it beforehand either, I was too busy being a great parent to my children, which I wouldn't have been able to do if I had to be suitably guilty for an extended period if time before or afterwards, or forced to carry a pregnancy I didn't want.

I've noticed this phrase being used a lot following the news about Texas. I'm pro-choice, and I don't think it helps our cause.

There are women who have abortions lightly. It's not a myth started by the Daily Mail. I don't even think it's necessarily even that rare.

Yeah. Let's give the anti-abortionists even more ammo, letting them run with the argument that women just have abortions for fun. Because that is always the argument: "abortion isn't contraception".

It is when your normal method fails. It is when you've fallen pregnant after being raped. It is when you have made a mistake having unprotected sex.

But for the majority of women it's a horrible experience.

And that's coming from someone who had one and didn't think twice about it, nor regrets it.

@StarCat2020

What do you base your opinions on?

Have you actually spoken to the women that you describe in your post?

I have. I sadly had to end a friendship to a friend who had in excess of 8 abortions in the 3 years I knew her. All to the same partner whom she'd spent many many years with and actively chose not to use protection.

She was incredibly blase about the whole thing and I was battling infertility at the time and could no longer tolerate it.

I don't even get why law should have a say in this issue, but since Texas clearly thinks law has a place let's talk about why everyone's only focussed on preventing abortions; why isn't the conversation focussed on preventing more pregnancies in the first place and by having men take greater responsibility for doing so? That's as good a solution as stopping more abortions happening as what's currently being implemented. This article claims the author believes 100% of pregnancies are caused by men and has some pretty convincing statistics (definitely sheds a different kind of light on the whole issue): humanparts.medium.com/men-cause-100-of-unwanted-pregnancies-eb0e8288a7e5

There are options for getting men to play a bigger role in preventing unwanted pregnancies and therefore abortions; males 16+ could have contraceptive implants by law until they're prepared to sign something stating they're ready to become a parent for example. But nobody's talking about what men can do, they're purely focussed on castigating women choosing to have abortions and policing women's bodies (because clearly an unborn fetus has more rights than a living woman does). The whole thing makes me furious.

Doesn't mean I'd ban abortion, but women who can kill their own baby without a moral twinge are either psychologically damaged or genuinely evil.

Women who believe this shit lack empathy and biological understanding.

It's a bunch of cells. Not every woman is the mothering type. Doesn't make them evil or psychologically damaged.

The fucking cheek of you even saying that.

@HavelockVetinari I once had a miscarriage at 7 weeks. I can assure you that what bled out in the toilet was no baby. Many years later I had an abortion at 7 weeks. No baby, just the potential to be one. It wasn’t a horrible decision, I had 4 kids already, and a failing marriage. No regrets, just relief (and a coil thank god). Am I psychologically damaged for not feeling terrible about removing something the size of a grape from my body? I’d be much more damaged by being a single parent to 5 kids I can assure you.

But nobody's talking about what men can do

Greg Abbott is going to stop rapes happening apparently, so there's that

@undecided2022, you do realise that her ability to become pregnant multiple times and your infertility had nothing to do with each other, right? She is definitely better off without your judgement about her.