to think "no woman aborts a baby lightly" is untrue and unhelpful?

[ZoeCM]

I've noticed this phrase being used a lot following the news about Texas. I'm pro-choice, and I don't think it helps our cause.

There are women who have abortions lightly. It's not a myth started by the Daily Mail. I don't even think it's necessarily even that rare.

There are women who actively want a baby in the near future, are in stable relationships, aren't even using contraception, but still decide to abort because the timing isn't 100% perfect: they don't want to cancel their holiday abroad, or give birth until the extension on their house is finished. Trust me, it happens. Does anyone really think those women agonised over whether the holiday/extension was more important than the baby, before painfully including that abortion was the only option? Of course not. And that's fine. Women shouldn't have to ask if their reasons for aborting are "good enough".

Then there are the women who are on their fifth or sixth abortion - workers at abortion clinics will confirm that this does happen. It seems unlikely that those women agonised over their decisions either, because presumably they would have put some long-term contraception in place to stop it happening again. I expect most of them come from pretty traumatic backgrounds, but that doesn't mean their decision to abort isn't made perfectly casually.

This phrase is a gift for pro-lifers, because it's so easily disproved: many of them will have stories about women they know who've had abortions without a second thought. A better argument would simply be that it doesn't matter why a woman wants an abortion: she should be allowed one because it's her body and her choice.

@HerRoyalRisesAgain

You don't get to demand that other people are happy about it.

No one is demanding that. Were saying that it doesn't matter if you're happy or not because its none of your business

No, you're not. You're harassing and insulting people who don't agree with you. Thinking abortion shouldn't be used in place of contraception is a valid opinion - who are you to tell people what to do?

Do you really not have opinions on anything, ever, if it doesn't directly affect you? I highly doubt it.

My abortion was nearly 30 years ago and i still think it was a reasonable choice that i made. Im grateful I didnt have to go through a teenage pregnancy and birth. I could only just about take care of myself

Nope. I don't care if you're happy about it or if you disagree.

Just as my own views about what decisions other women make about their own bodies are of no relevance either.

It is none of my business, and it is none of yours either.

You do you. Don't have an abortion if you don't want one.

I'll do me.

And we'll let everyone else get on with their lives too, accepting that what we think about their decisions is of absolutely no relevance whatsoever.

Do people really want to go back in time to a woman having to endure repeated unwanted pregnancies like my grandmother had to

No, you're not. You're harassing and insulting people who don't agree with you.

I've not insulted a single person
Why do you feel the need to lie?

Firm about trying to encourage contraception use

But apparently these millions of women are using abortion as contraception every couple of months —despite being contradictory— so surely job done?

because that’s what women need - a patronising lecture. Because we don’t get treated like children nearly enough. Will they tell a driver who has been in an accident that they need to make sure they drive safely? Thought not.

the point is that perhaps medical staff should be firm about trying to encourage contraception use

The medical staff will be encouraging contraceptive use.

If they don't take the advice then what?

@Unicornish

Nope. I don't care if you're happy about it or if you disagree.

Just as my own views about what decisions other women make about their own bodies are of no relevance either.

It is none of my business, and it is none of yours either.

You do you. Don't have an abortion if you don't want one.

I'll do me.

And we'll let everyone else get on with their lives too, accepting that what we think about their decisions is of absolutely no relevance whatsoever.

Except you're not doing that, are you? You're criticising people for having an opinion.

There's this obsession these days about not judging people. Why? If you do something I disagree with, I might judge you, just as you judge others for all kinds of things that are none of your business.

The hypocrisy is staggering.

There's no room for discussion anymore...everyone just loves echo chambers. All I'm doing is agreeing with the OP...you are somehow bothered by my and others' opinions that lots of women do take abortion lightly even though some of them have posted in this thread.

*who are you to tell people what to do?
*
Bingo!

I tell you what. I won't bossily tell other women what they should and shouldn't do with their own bodies, and cast judgement on them, if you don't either.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

the point is that perhaps medical staff should be firm about trying to encourage contraception use

The medical staff will be encouraging contraceptive use.

If they don't take the advice then what?

Then nothing, they'll go on to have more abortions. I'm not saying they should be prevented from doing so. I'm saying they don't get to do it and then whinge about people judging.

@LukeEvansWife

Firm about trying to encourage contraception use

But apparently these millions of women are using abortion as contraception every couple of months —despite being contradictory— so surely job done?

because that’s what women need - a patronising lecture. Because we don’t get treated like children nearly enough. Will they tell a driver who has been in an accident that they need to make sure they drive safely? Thought not.

Maybe some women do need a patronising lecture, yes.

If the accident was the bus driver's fault, they might well lose their job or their licence or even go to prison, so what an incredibly odd comparison. A safe driving course would be getting off lightly. It's almost like actions have consequences, isn't it?

I think the thing is that most intelligent and morally conscious women would NOT take an abortion lightly. This is because there is a tension between the baby’s right to life and the mother’s right to bodily autonomy. There is no right answer about whose right should come first and therefore the women has to decide which one she wants to prioritise: her right to bodily autonomy or the baby’s right to life. So of course it’s not a decision that should be taken lightly.

@ZoeCM

I've noticed this phrase being used a lot following the news about Texas. I'm pro-choice, and I don't think it helps our cause.

There are women who have abortions lightly. It's not a myth started by the Daily Mail. I don't even think it's necessarily even that rare.

There are women who actively want a baby in the near future, are in stable relationships, aren't even using contraception, but still decide to abort because the timing isn't 100% perfect: they don't want to cancel their holiday abroad, or give birth until the extension on their house is finished. Trust me, it happens. Does anyone really think those women agonised over whether the holiday/extension was more important than the baby, before painfully including that abortion was the only option? Of course not. And that's fine. Women shouldn't have to ask if their reasons for aborting are "good enough".

Then there are the women who are on their fifth or sixth abortion - workers at abortion clinics will confirm that this does happen. It seems unlikely that those women agonised over their decisions either, because presumably they would have put some long-term contraception in place to stop it happening again. I expect most of them come from pretty traumatic backgrounds, but that doesn't mean their decision to abort isn't made perfectly casually.

This phrase is a gift for pro-lifers, because it's so easily disproved: many of them will have stories about women they know who've had abortions without a second thought. A better argument would simply be that it doesn't matter why a woman wants an abortion: she should be allowed one because it's her body and her choice.

Absolutely right

My health isn't your place to have a "discussion" about though, just as yours isn't mine.

Your health is absolutely none of my business. Mine (and everyone else's) is none of yours.

@Holly60 brilliantly put. I don't believe it is a choice that should be taken lightly.

@Unicornish

My health isn't your place to have a "discussion" about though, just as yours isn't mine.

Your health is absolutely none of my business. Mine (and everyone else's) is none of yours.

Plenty of people have judged me negatively for having autistic traits. Plenty of people have judged my behaviour. You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think everyone doesn't judge others all the time and hypocritical if you think you don't do it.

Plenty of people have judged me negatively for having autistic traits

Plenty of people have judged me for actually bring autistic. That fiesnt make it right. Just because people do judge doesn't mean they should

@Holly60

I think the thing is that most intelligent and morally conscious women would NOT take an abortion lightly. This is because there is a tension between the baby’s right to life and the mother’s right to bodily autonomy. There is no right answer about whose right should come first and therefore the women has to decide which one she wants to prioritise: her right to bodily autonomy or the baby’s right to life. So of course it’s not a decision that should be taken lightly.

I agree. I think some women are just not very morally conscious and instead of owning it, they get defensive about it.

@HerRoyalRisesAgain

Plenty of people have judged me negatively for having autistic traits

Plenty of people have judged me for actually bring autistic. That fiesnt make it right. Just because people do judge doesn't mean they should

Yes, I am actually autistic as well. The reason I said 'traits' was that these are the things that get noticed and judged.

A lot of people who say they'd 'never bully a disabled person' have no problem being nasty to someone for being what they perceive as 'strange' or 'rude' or generally not acting how they expect them to.

A lot of people who say they'd 'never bully a disabled person' have no problem being nasty to someone for being what they perceive as 'strange' or 'rude' or generally not acting how they expect them to.

I agree. But just because they do, it doesn't make it right

Either you support a woman's right to her own bodily autonomy, or you don't.

Few issues are this clear-cut. This is one of them.

@HerRoyalRisesAgain

A lot of people who say they'd 'never bully a disabled person' have no problem being nasty to someone for being what they perceive as 'strange' or 'rude' or generally not acting how they expect them to.

I agree. But just because they do, it doesn't make it right

I just don't think it's realistic to think nobody should judge anyone for anything. Where's the line?

What about if a friend gets into a car and drives home after a few drinks? Takes illegal drugs? Cheats on their partner? We all have things we think are morally iffy or even wrong even if they don't affect us at all.

Then nothing, they'll go on to have more abortions. I'm not saying they should be prevented from doing so. I'm saying they don't get to do it and then whinge about people judging.

We should all whinge about judgement for having abortions.

Look at what happened in Texas.

Judgy prolifers giving extreme examples of evil babykilling women with no morals at all. Apply enough pressure and tell enough stories and then laws are made based on that.

I think the thing is that most intelligent and morally conscious women would NOT take an abortion lightly. This is because there is a tension between the baby’s right to life and the mother’s right to bodily autonomy. There is no right answer about whose right should come first and therefore the women has to decide which one she wants to prioritise: her right to bodily autonomy or the baby’s right to life. So of course it’s not a decision that should be taken lightly.

Why do people think its 'better' for women to agonise and suffer if they decide on abortion? I am intelligent and morally conscious, I also had an abortion. There was no agonising, no suffering, my right to not be pregnant was my choice, and mine alone. There is 100% a right answer about who should be prioritised - the woman.

It may make you feel better if I suffered for my choice, but I feel fine about not having agonised at all 🤷🏻‍♀️

We all have things we think are morally iffy or even wrong even if they don't affect us at all.

Drink driving and drug taking care affect others though an abortion affects literally no one except the woman

[quote grannybee55]@Holly60 brilliantly put. I don't believe it is a choice that should be taken lightly.[/quote]
What if someone agonises over it for days, while the pregnancy advances, and still decides to do it? What does that achieve except a more developed foetus?

How much thought and agony must a woman give it before you approve?

How do you measure the gravity given to the choice? Does a quick decision have to mean a careless one?

What if someone doesn't think about it much at all but decides to have the baby, without considering how she would care for it?

What does "taken lightly" even mean? How do you define it? What difference does it make to the outcome? How would you try to enforce this?