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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think "no woman aborts a baby lightly" is untrue and unhelpful?

548 replies

ZoeCM · 11/09/2021 15:32

I've noticed this phrase being used a lot following the news about Texas. I'm pro-choice, and I don't think it helps our cause.

There are women who have abortions lightly. It's not a myth started by the Daily Mail. I don't even think it's necessarily even that rare.

There are women who actively want a baby in the near future, are in stable relationships, aren't even using contraception, but still decide to abort because the timing isn't 100% perfect: they don't want to cancel their holiday abroad, or give birth until the extension on their house is finished. Trust me, it happens. Does anyone really think those women agonised over whether the holiday/extension was more important than the baby, before painfully including that abortion was the only option? Of course not. And that's fine. Women shouldn't have to ask if their reasons for aborting are "good enough".

Then there are the women who are on their fifth or sixth abortion - workers at abortion clinics will confirm that this does happen. It seems unlikely that those women agonised over their decisions either, because presumably they would have put some long-term contraception in place to stop it happening again. I expect most of them come from pretty traumatic backgrounds, but that doesn't mean their decision to abort isn't made perfectly casually.

This phrase is a gift for pro-lifers, because it's so easily disproved: many of them will have stories about women they know who've had abortions without a second thought. A better argument would simply be that it doesn't matter why a woman wants an abortion: she should be allowed one because it's her body and her choice.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Clocktopus · 12/09/2021 09:12

"When does life begin" is such a grey area and varies enormously from person to person and in a lot of cases is an emotional issue which is why the law takes the line that it starts at birth, no emotion involved, that side of the line its a life and the other side of the line its not a life.

Viviennemary · 12/09/2021 09:19

That is a very wise post huniepop. A fetus is alive and human. Its not an aching tooth or a threadworm as some have said earlier in the thread.

bathsh3ba · 12/09/2021 09:29

You're right that the phrase is a gift to pro-lifers. But then, as someone who wishes there could be a teensy bit more nuance in the world, I think most of the pro-choice arguments are a gift to pro-lifers.

The pro-choice argument allows you to kill a term baby the day before it's born. It allows you to choose the sex of your child by aborting a baby that is not of your desired sex. It is a slippery slope. I do not understand why people don't seem to see either of these as problematic.

Unicornish · 12/09/2021 09:31

But even if you believe that a foetus has a right to life, what does that actually mean, in practical terms?

We all have a right to life. What we don't have is the right to use another's body in order to maintain our own lives. If we insist that foetuses do have this right, then we are granting them far greater rights than those granted to actualised, born human beings. Google the unconscious violinist.

Pinkspecs · 12/09/2021 09:34

I remember watching a documentary on abortion and there was a lady on there who instead of using contraception would 'just get an abortion.'
I can't agree with anyone who does that just because they have a choice.
It's disgusting.

Unicornish · 12/09/2021 09:39

Has anyone actually asked for your agreement before having an abortion though @Pinkspecs? Confused If not, I'd suggest that you just keep your nose out and get on with your own life.

Pinkspecs · 12/09/2021 09:44

'Has anyone actually asked for your agreement before having an abortion though @Pinkspecs? confused If not, I'd suggest that you just keep your nose out and get on with your own life.'

It was a documentary I cant agree with anyone that behaves like that no, I never said she should ask for my agreement, so don't try and twist my words @Unicornish.
So I suggest you get your facts straight before you start making up crap.

Blossomtoes · 12/09/2021 09:46

The thing that occurs to me reading this thread is how much the boundaries of abortion legislation have been pushed since it became law in 1967. The law hasn’t changed, yet it seems to be irrelevant now.

I’m massively in favour of assisted dying with strong measures to prevent its misuse but seeing how the protections enshrined in abortion legislation have been eroded makes me question how right I am about voluntary euthenasia.

grannybee55 · 12/09/2021 09:52

I am pro choice. 100%. Women should be able to access safe legal abortions.

But can anyone really agree with the scenario @Pinkspecs has described? Women just getting abortion after abortion rather than bothering to use contraception? Whatever your moral outlook is, that cannot be in the interests of the womans overall health and its constant medical treatment that could be avoided.

I am the sort of person who would agonise over having an abortion. I would have one if I felt it was the right choice for me but it's not something I could do lightly and I believe it would affect me afterwards. That's just me, I'm not saying other women couldn't or shouldn't just move on from it.

But come on, there is a level of personal responsibility here too. Doing it over and over simply because you've chosen not to use contraception isn't good for anyone surely?

Unicornish · 12/09/2021 10:19

I can't agree with anyone who does that just because they have a choice.

I'm saying that no one asked you so your agreement or otherwise is not wanted or needed. Thanks for sharing, though! Confused

acatcalledjohn · 12/09/2021 10:21

@grannybee55

I am pro choice. 100%. Women should be able to access safe legal abortions.

But can anyone really agree with the scenario @Pinkspecs has described? Women just getting abortion after abortion rather than bothering to use contraception? Whatever your moral outlook is, that cannot be in the interests of the womans overall health and its constant medical treatment that could be avoided.

I am the sort of person who would agonise over having an abortion. I would have one if I felt it was the right choice for me but it's not something I could do lightly and I believe it would affect me afterwards. That's just me, I'm not saying other women couldn't or shouldn't just move on from it.

But come on, there is a level of personal responsibility here too. Doing it over and over simply because you've chosen not to use contraception isn't good for anyone surely?

But taking away the option of abortion isn't going to magically make things better, is it? Education might, counselling might, a MH or social services assessment might explain things, but simply telling a woman that she's had too many abortions and thus this pregnancy will be carried to term, will either result in a child in an environment where it's unwanted, or a child in care.

Woman does not want to continue pregnancy. Woman has abortion.

Literally no one else gets a say.

Unicornish · 12/09/2021 10:24

I don't actually think there is any clear evidence to suggest that abortions are damaging to women's health, even in the case of repeated abortions.

Contraception is also not without implications for women's health, so they may make the choice that for them, they would rather have an abortion in the case of an unwanted pregnancy than have to deal with the side effects of hormonal contraception, for example.

Even if there was evidence to suggest that abortions were harmful to women's health, people do all sorts of things all of the time which aren't optimal from a health point of view, but we don't try to outlaw it or penalise them. We mind our own business.

huniepop · 12/09/2021 10:24

@Viviennemary

That is a very wise post huniepop. A fetus is alive and human. Its not an aching tooth or a threadworm as some have said earlier in the thread.

Totally, and we don't have to pretend it's not alive and ignore every rule of science to support abortion. If we can support euthanasia and assisted suicide of other living people, we don't need to lie and pretend a fetus isn't

LukeEvansWife · 12/09/2021 10:25

I love how all these people know women who had had loads of abortions. Hmm Most women don’t talk about it to people, and if they do they talk to people they have already guessed will not condemn them. So having loads of abortions and then telling all and sundry seems…. Unlikely.

Unicornish · 12/09/2021 10:27

It is bizarre isn't it @LukeEvansWife?

It's almost like the forced birthers are both prurient and nosy, and also full of shit!

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 12/09/2021 10:29

The pro-choice argument allows you to kill a term baby the day before it's born. It allows you to choose the sex of your child by aborting a baby that is not of your desired sex. It is a slippery slope. I do not understand why people don't seem to see either of these as problematic.

Why should the possibility of a very tiny amount of women doing this impact the majority of women though?

Realistically if abortion to term was freely available for all do you really think women everywhere will be 39 weeks pregnant and simply decide they can't be arsed anymore and have an abortion?

A tiny amount of women decide to have multiple abortions because they want a specific sex.

Its more problematic to use very extreme examples of women doing something less than ideal to make laws on what the rest of us do with our own fertility.

But come on, there is a level of personal responsibility here too. Doing it over and over simply because you've chosen not to use contraception isn't good for anyone surely?

Of course there's a level of personal responsibility, as with all things. Kids going to A&E month after month after skateboard accidents, sports people getting injuries time after time etc but nobody tells them they are only allowed 2 or 3 treatments on the NHS and then it's just tough luck.

And again, the tiny amount of women who use abortions time after time because they can't be bothered to use contraception shouldn't impact me, you or anyone else being able to get an abortion.

HerRoyalRisesAgain · 12/09/2021 10:29

So having loads of abortions and then telling all and sundry seems…. Unlikely.

Indeed. Its amazing really how many they know. I know of 1 other woman who had had an abortion.

LukeEvansWife · 12/09/2021 10:29

I wish it was better known about those of us who have them without anguish and regret. I wonder if some women feel they have to go through all that in case they are judged even more (certainly if some of the comments on this thread are to go by)

Pinkspecs · 12/09/2021 10:31

'I'm saying that no one asked you so your agreement or otherwise is not wanted or needed. Thanks for sharing, though! confused'

Yes you do seem confused don't you, you don't seem to be able to understand that other people are allowed to agree and disagree with things.
You are trying to silence anyone holding a different view to you.
It's a big world out there, lots of people will agree and disagree with you.
You aren't the thread police @Unicornish.

Unicornish · 12/09/2021 10:38

Nope, not the thread police, nor any other kind of police.

I'm merely pointing out that whether you agree or disagree with someone else's private medical decisions is of no relevance whatsoever.

I don't know why forced birthers seem to think that their opinions are so much more special and important than everyone else's.

Don't agree with abortion? Don't have one. Don't agree with multiple abortions. Don't have multiple abortions.

It just isn't our business, any of us, to judge women who have abortions, or their reasons for doing so.

3ismylot · 12/09/2021 10:44

I am very pro-choice, no woman should ever have to continue a pregnancy if she doesn't want to, for whatever reason.
I would much rather a woman had an abortion than bring a child into the world and then give them up for adoption. Continuing a pregnancy to then give up the baby destroys a woman and the child too. Once those adoption papers are signed that child's whole identity is removed and they are left at the mercy of others to adopt them, they spend their lives wondering what they did wrong. I genuinely believe that adoption is much worse than abortion and I say that as an adoptee.
I think any pregnant woman should be offered support and advice but ultimately her decision should be respected.

Rozziie · 12/09/2021 10:52

@Unicornish

Has anyone actually asked for your agreement before having an abortion though *@Pinkspecs*? Confused If not, I'd suggest that you just keep your nose out and get on with your own life.
Why do you get to have an opinion and she doesn't? The hypocrisy is staggering. You get to do whatever you like. You don't get to demand that other people are happy about it.
HerRoyalRisesAgain · 12/09/2021 10:54

You don't get to demand that other people are happy about it.

No one is demanding that. Were saying that it doesn't matter if you're happy or not because its none of your business

Pinkspecs · 12/09/2021 10:55

Well you seem to think you are the thread police @Unicornish not being able to stomach what people say if it's not something you agree with.

You disagree with me because you have your own opinion on it but why you think your opinion bares more relevance on the matter at hand and over my own opinion, again makes no sense.
You tell me my own opinion doesn't matter because you believe your opinion trump's mine. Confused
Also calling people 'forced birthers' because they don't agree with a scenario of a woman using abortion as contraception is just bizarre.
You label people and tell them to be quiet.
It's ridiculous.
I won't respond anymore to you, personally it's all getting a bit childish...
Have a good day.

Rozziie · 12/09/2021 10:56

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

The pro-choice argument allows you to kill a term baby the day before it's born. It allows you to choose the sex of your child by aborting a baby that is not of your desired sex. It is a slippery slope. I do not understand why people don't seem to see either of these as problematic.

Why should the possibility of a very tiny amount of women doing this impact the majority of women though?

Realistically if abortion to term was freely available for all do you really think women everywhere will be 39 weeks pregnant and simply decide they can't be arsed anymore and have an abortion?

A tiny amount of women decide to have multiple abortions because they want a specific sex.

Its more problematic to use very extreme examples of women doing something less than ideal to make laws on what the rest of us do with our own fertility.

But come on, there is a level of personal responsibility here too. Doing it over and over simply because you've chosen not to use contraception isn't good for anyone surely?

Of course there's a level of personal responsibility, as with all things. Kids going to A&E month after month after skateboard accidents, sports people getting injuries time after time etc but nobody tells them they are only allowed 2 or 3 treatments on the NHS and then it's just tough luck.

And again, the tiny amount of women who use abortions time after time because they can't be bothered to use contraception shouldn't impact me, you or anyone else being able to get an abortion.

You don't think people who repeatedly show up with the same thing don't get disapproval and comments? Of course they do. I have friends who have had all kinds of nasty comments because of sports injuries, suggestions that they should give up, etc. I haven't seen a single person on this thread saying a woman should be forced to give birth if she's had too many previous abortions - the point is that perhaps medical staff should be firm about trying to encourage contraception use, just the same as someone who keeps showing up with knee and elbow injuries from skating might be told to wear knee and elbow pads in future.

Common sense is really uncommon, isn't it?