Not to allow ex to take dc on this holiday?

[MrsBede]

They are 12 &14 and in the 7 years since we split he has never taken them on holiday alone, though they've been twice in the UK when his dm organised it. Now he's inherited a substantial sum and messaged me tonight asking if he could take them away in October half-term. I asked which dates (they have 2 weeks off) and he said all of it as he wants to go abroad.

Ds1 was sitting next to me at the time and immediately said no as he really doesn't want to miss any school if he had to isolate on return. I messaged back to that effect but I'm livid he would take them for the full two weeks. I have never taken them so that he hasn't had them at all in any one holiday and I think it's unacceptable. He has them one night a week and eow, but often cancels if he has a gig. Term time is full on and we need the holiday time to reconnect (I'm a teacher). Just why should he think he should have the full holiday?

The other thing that really annoys me is he goes to Italy to visit friends every autumn and many a time when they were younger this has put me in the shit with child care as he does it at short notice. He obviously just wants to take them there and it's two weeks as that's how long he wants to go for, It's not a touristy place, there's not a lot there and they don't know his friends. I just think it's an utterly selfish idea and he's not replied to my text, which has put me on edge and I know ds is also worried about having said no. Ds2 doesn't see why they couldn't go. AIBU to think he's a selfish prick?

To which you respond no I'm not, I'm not renewing my child's passport (which tbh just comes across as spiteful) and go on a rant about he can have one week in the UK.....

@Scottishskifun Why should she? Why can’t he do the leg work and renew his child’s passport? Is it because he’s a man and needs a woman to do this for him? Why is it spiteful that she has boundaries and won’t do tasks associated with organising his trip abroad with the kids?

I too am unclear why you’ve posted - you have already decided you’re NBU and seem to be using the thread to argue with your ex by proxy

I just had lunch with my school friend today, where we reminisced about living as children with divorced mothers who were totally unable to put their feelings about their exes aside in front of us. We both had very fractured relationships with our fathers throughout our teenage years as a result. And we both felt a very heavy burden of needing to look after our mothers as a result. How did that manifest? By agreeing with them that our dads were a waste of space, that we didn’t want to spend time with them, that we’d much prefer to stay with our mums instead.

Be careful, OP. It’s highly unlikely that your boys haven’t picked up on your bitterness and aren’t feeling the pressure to look after you. The bitterness might be well founded, but that’s to do with YOUR relationship with him. It in no way gives you the right to influence THEIR relationship with him.

@MrsBede I also get why you’d be annoyed that he hasn’t responded to your txt where you informed him that ds1 doesn’t want to go. It seems a little bit petulant and immature of him and not conducive to maintaining good communication.

FWIW I am lucky enough to have a pretty good co-parenting relationship with my dd’s father. Ideally all kids should have that but in reality it’s not always possible to achieve as it take two parents to make that possible. Sorry you’ve had some pretty judgmental responses here.

It's hard and i agree

Oh this is really sad. You have every right to be annoyed at your ex, but you're using the children as a weapon against him. It's a nice 2 week holiday, it's a nice thing they will enjoy it. Yes their Dad hasn't been around as much, so don't stop it when he does offer. You've become clouded in bitterness and lost perspective. It's tough, but there really is no reasonable reason for them not to go, as much as you would like there to be.

And if money dropped in your lap, wouldn’t you want to take them on holiday?

He’s their father. You might hate him but don’t spoil things for your children. It’s a one-off. Use the time to get all the things done that you can’t get done when the children are around. I dare to say Christmas but you could start Christmas shopping or something.

@Oceanbliss

To which you respond no I'm not, I'm not renewing my child's passport (which tbh just comes across as spiteful) and go on a rant about he can have one week in the UK.....

@Scottishskifun Why should she? Why can’t he do the leg work and renew his child’s passport? Is it because he’s a man and needs a woman to do this for him? Why is it spiteful that she has boundaries and won’t do tasks associated with organising his trip abroad with the kids?

I mean by all means he should pay for it but actually depending on what year they were born it can be pretty complicated for divorced parents and I'm assuming that the OP has all the paperwork and old passport to send off so it's pretty tricky to renew it without the old one without masses of mess etc. Nothing to do with him being a bloke!

If he sorts passports, the tests and holiday etc it still doesn't sound like it would be good enough for the OP because she doesn't want to let her ex take them abroad or have the holiday full stop!

Let the kids have a holiday. Enjoy your break. Let him worry about them catching up with work. Holiday memories are precious and if they don't really have holidays it's even more important.
I am a single mum and I can't afford holidays.
My kids have told me their dad is planning a huge holiday for them and it means they'll be away on an important date but I'm just so happy he's taking them to something I could never afford and I know it will be an unforgettable precious time for them.
I'm on a very low wage and I struggle with physical and mental health.
I'm often lonely and jealous about how much he has in comparison to me (high earner, rich partner too), and how much freedom he has but on the flip side it means that my kids have a far richer life than if they were only with me and never saw their dad

I am so sick of the recurring theme that the single mum is the bitter ex trying to alienate her children from their father.

It’s misogyny. I have been around long enough to see this attitude towards women time and time again. There is no evidence for most of the accusations here on this thread. It is blatant misogyny.

Look at what she has actually written. Look at her actual concerns. Consider the fact that venting on an anonymous forum is not synonymous with venting in front of her kids. Consider the fact that we have not enough information to be accusing her of being a bitter ex punishing her children for their dad’s shortcomings.

Will it be the dad looking after the boys when they get back? Will he be settling them in back at school? Will he be dealing with adjustment of being on holidays abroad, possible jet lag and going straight back to school? And if they did need to isolate will he be doing schoolwork with them so that they don’t fall behind? Or will all this fall to the Op because she’s the mum?

Only the Op knows the answers to these questions. She’s allowed to feel what she feels and vent away from the kids. I don’t think she deserves being lectured and told she’s bitter based on negative assumptions or people projecting their own negative experiences on to her.

And if Christmas holidays are longer (and they have them for half the holidays) why can’t he arrange a two week trip then? Wouldn’t that be more reasonable? Then the boys would get more time to adjust going back to school.

It's not unreasonable of him to ask this at all. I'm sorry you're hurting and angry but if you take a step back it is a nice thing really - these kids have a dad that wants to enjoy their company for two weeks when he could just go away and splash the cash on himself.

It's a one off. If both children wanted to go I'd let them. I appreciate you believe one doesn't want to go. If the other did, I would let them go alone.

You sound jealous OP let them go Encourage it and have some time for yourself.

Will it be the dad looking after the boys when they get back? Will he be settling them in back at school? Will he be dealing with adjustment of being on holidays abroad, possible jet lag and going straight back to school? And if they did need to isolate will he be doing schoolwork with them so that they don’t fall behind? Or will all this fall to the Op because she’s the mum?

It's two weeks in Italy. No jet lag. No 'settling them back'. Maybe others children are desperately fragile but mine wouldn't need some kind of decompression after 14 days in a perfectly nice European country. Oh no, pizza and gelato.

Ask what he's going to do about the passports and isolation. That's his job. No plan, that's is crap for him. He needs to plan properly. But there's no way I'd be stopping mine having two weeks in Italy.

I find it really strange when people say something as big as children going to another country for two weeks is none of a mother/father's business. I took my children out of the country this summer and I chatted to their dad before booking to see what he thought, and as it was longer than usual to check he was ok with that. He's their dad, why would I think "my time/none of your business".

OP of course it's rubbish that he pays little towards their day to day care and then splashes out on a holiday. I guess him renting somewhere to keep contact is good long term though.

Is there a chance that the holiday place is somewhere he loves and wants to share with the children, and he hasn't realised there will be little to do? Although I can't imagine not loving any trip to Italy! Sometimes the less touristy trip is a better experience (Did you say Italy, think I read that early in thread)

Not the point of the thread but I can't imagine going abroad every year of I can't afford to take my children abroad.

Maybe encourage DC to chat to him when they see him this week about what the trip might be like, encourage them to be open to the idea it could be fun.

I would be suggesting 10 days to him as I know from experience my DC are shattered when we spend the whole of half term on holiday. They love some down time before going back to school.

@MrsBede

Yeah, he can reconnect for one week and I will for the other.

This makes you sound mean and belligerent. I'm actually really grateful for this post though. Life has dealt me a very shit hand the last few years. More recently things have been very difficult for me and my children's dad has been a complete arse throughout and made things harder for me. I have been becoming bitter and I haven't been hiding it from the kids as well as I should so reading here has been a wake up call for me. My mum hated my dad and kept me away from him and from his family. Due to her own bitterness and resentment she also burned bridges with her family too.

Consequently I never had an extended family around, and never formed a real bond with any of my mum's or dad's family.
now I'm older and struggling I don't have anybody at all in my corner supporting me and nobody to turn to when things get rough.
Please don't isolate your kids from their dad, we all need a strong support network and the more people we have in our team the better.
I have never recovered from not having a family.
He might not be perfect but he doesn't pose a risk to your children.
If they have to isolate on return let him deal with it.
You need to be the bigger person in this scenario.

Wow, you're really projecting here OP. If the kids don't want to go, that's one thing. But you calling him a selfish prick for wanting to take his kids on holiday is another ...

Cripes, YABU. its petty and selfish about the passport as a way of forcing your child's hand in whether they go or not, because through spiting their father it's them who lose out.

I don't think you have a problem here as your dc (not sure which ones you are talking about as you refer to them both as ds1) don't appear to want to go and at that age I'd give them the choice. I'd probably have a chat though about the fact that isolating is only a possibility if they test positive for covid - something they are far more likely to pick up on a uk holiday currently (if they haven't already had it - they probably have) so i'd encourage them not to be put off on that fact alone. I kind of get where your coming from as I also work in a school and have a very crap EXP who does little to no actual parenting and doesn't contribute at all fairly either in effort or financially, however i don't think it's an unreasonable request as a once off to have a 2 week holiday. I hope my ex wouldn't try to stop me from doing the same. You can always take the whole holiday at Easter or Xmas as a trade. He should certainly pay to renew the passport but I think it's fair to raise that problem now (you don't say if he's aware) so he has time to deal with it if he chooses and if ds wants to go. Sorry but I do think YABU

It could be a fantastic chance for the kids to see somewhere they have never been before . I don’t think it’s an unreasonable request at all.

yabu.age 12 and 14.one parent family,regardless of when split/you are teacher you kinda sound like 24/7 mum/parent with care.
the self isolate thing can be explored(i got no idea conditions enforced/expected bout tht where you ate-where hes going.
if was skegness would fortnight be ok with kids?
you might well be valid bout-hes not stept up to mark,you might well-just be functional co job/school/his self defined negotiable attempt at dadding.
tough
sorry.but.way its deemed by(scottish)law//possibly misinterpreted by me is.both parents personal emotions and feelings are nt relevant to the kids being focus. realistically 2 weeks with mr does what he wants at just preteen/already there tenn//probably do YOU more good than harm.reconnect with yourself.providing you can trust kids be genuinely safe,looked after.by him.whether hes saved up 2ps in a pot,won off horses etc is irrelevant as long as can sustain them for time suggested.
is he go alone(no granma/partner. )?
is big time scary-but maybe you could benefit hugely from actual carefree solo time.reconnect (i dont get/your mas yer ma always..but)is always gony be when kids walk through door. try look at it without predjudices ortrayed/maybe

Ds1 was sitting next to me at the time and immediately said no as he really doesn’t want to miss any school if he had to isolate on his return.

I would be encouraging your ds1 to go. This is an opportunity to visit another country. However, as isolation rules may change, perhaps your ds1 has a point. One week this year sounds like a compromise because of the pandemic. Maybe suggest this to your ex?

Ive taken them multiple times abroad and we all went before the split.

As you’ve taken them abroad multiple times since splitting, it should be fine for him to take them abroad, surely?

Obviously that doesn’t mean he can’t take them away a week in this country somewhere would be fine.

Why are you then saying this? Your ex should be able to take his dcs abroad even if just to visit the friends.

As a tween / teen, your dcs will want time alone and perhaps he intends to take them out to explore. Plus they will be able to explore alone, Holidays are naturally changing from child centric to more adult focused as the children’s interests mature. Maybe the friends will plan stuff, perhaps they have a pool etc.

As others have said, you do sound very bitter. Your children must know this. And your ds1 being older, will possibly have picked this up more. Please don’t be that mum, who can’t accept her ex has the equal right to take their children abroad.

I agree with you. However, I don’t think the “men deserve the final say without having to take responsibility for the repercussions of their decisions” brigade will agree. And the “women have less value and should put up and shut up” brigade would disagree with you too

You know, if you had bothered to read what people are saying, most people are defending the children's right to have a holiday with their dad and only a small handful see this as the dad's right to anything.

I loathed my useless and totally selfish ex but the only limitation I put on my dd holidaying with him were to do with her safety and she still has wonderful memories of those holidays.

YABVU

I can see your point of view OP and think you have been given an unnecessary hard time. A fairly classic example of the first few responses setting the tone.

From reading your posts you are not preventing him from taking the kids away. You are happy to split the break. Your concern about abroad is that they may have to isolate on return and miss further schooling after a disrupted year which is also a concern for DS1. You are annoyed as it seems to be typical of your ex thinking about what suits him best and the rest of you have to just suck it up and deal with any consequences.

I would be fucked off in your situation too. Nowhere does it say that you are trying to stop contact or not allow him to take them away. As for the idea that you must renew the passports or you are being bitter. Fuck that he can sort the renewal, why should you have another job on your to do list for his benefit!

I couldn't call any father who wants to take their children away for 2 weeks a selfish prick.

That's an odd attitude

If they don't want to go that's another matter but it's one half term holiday and he also wants to connect with his children.

I haven’t read the rest of the replies but..

IMO you need to take your personal opinions of him out of it and see the opportunity for your kids. I think they should go.

I do your job too and I’d love two weeks kid free… I’d be waving them off merrily!