AIBU She/Her

[beewritesx]

My sister is a big advocate of trans rights and says that pronouns in bio is a way of showing inclusion and support of the trans community.

I was quite surprised to receive a professional email from my ex boss with She/Her listed next to her email address (as I know this person and their gender).

I believe people should have the right to identify as they choose. If somebody asked me to call them X, I will as it's respectful. I also believe that if somebody is aged over 18 and decides to transition or change their gender identity they should do so with no persecution whatsoever.

However, pronouns in bio is just something I don't understand and cannot get on board with. If I'm ever in a professional position it's not something I would want to consider. I can't explain why. I just don't.

AIBU or too "traditional" (like my younger sister would probably argue) or does anyone feel the same? I can't give a rational explanation as to why I wouldn't, I just don't want to.

@DrSbaitso

So where’s your line re including trans people?

That they should be able to live, work and love authentically to themselves without persecution. And that spaces and services that are female-only for a reason (safety, athletic integrity etc) should not be open to anyone with an intact male body who merely says they feel female, since actually being female is not a feeling.

So female names on male-bodied people?

So female names on male-bodied people?

If they want to. I don't think they should be too surprised when there's some inevitable confusion, but you can call yourself what you like.

What's your line on protecting sex based rights?

@DrSbaitso

So female names on male-bodied people?

If they want to. I don't think they should be too surprised when there's some inevitable confusion, but you can call yourself what you like.

What's your line on protecting sex based rights?

Pronouns?

I have a photo on my work email.

If anyone sees that photo and is in doubt about my pronouns then I think they have a lot of problems, and can call me 'him' if they like!!!!

Where it is an international company, with no photos available, pronouns may be useful for foreign names. That's the only time I think it's suitable tbh.

Pronouns?

This entire discussion is about pronouns not being sex based. Try again.

Do you support retaining sex based rights?

@DrSbaitso

Pronouns?

This entire discussion is about pronouns not being sex based. Try again.

Do you support retaining sex based rights?

I will try again: do you use people’s preferred pronouns?

I’ve already said upthread where I stand on retaining sex-based rights.

This entire discussion is about pronouns not being sex based. Try again

Any one would think that its not enough to be treated with kindness and the same respect everyone else gets at work and have your characteristic protected in law, and that it's not inclusion unless it's total capitulation and everyone goes out of their way to use she/her he/him eveb when not necessary in order to validate an identity no one else even knows about... that wouldn't be it. Would it?..

Whilst it strikes me as the use of pronouns in email signatures strikes me as tokenism and gesture, if someone chooses to do this I will respect their choice. And respect the option not to do so.

@boreda09

Whilst it strikes me as the use of pronouns in email signatures strikes me as tokenism and gesture, if someone chooses to do this I will respect their choice. And respect the option not to do so.

Yes, I think this is how most people feel.

@DrSbaitso

So where’s your line re including trans people?

That they should be able to live, work and love authentically to themselves without persecution. And that spaces and services that are female-only for a reason (safety, athletic integrity etc) should not be open to anyone with an intact male body who merely says they feel female, since actually being female is not a feeling.

This! I strongly believe that TW are men, think it's madness not to. I also think they should be able to do what they want, when they want, where they want, other than to the extent it affects women e.g. sports, female spaces, confusion of medical terminology that will impact people having the correct advice and care for their sex. Is it so hard to comprehend?

I’ve already said upthread where I stand on retaining sex-based rights.

I can't find it, sorry. Can you repeat?

@DrSbaitso

I’ve already said upthread where I stand on retaining sex-based rights.

I can't find it, sorry. Can you repeat?

I will.

Do you use people’s preferred pronouns?

It's compelled speech and virtue signalling.

It is absolutely absurd that we should have to pander to such a tiny % of the population who share the religious beliefs of gender ideology and expect to put their wants before our own needs.

Why should I have to make other adults feel 'comfortable' by going along with beliefs that makes ME feel uncomfortable?
I don't believe in God either yet don't have to pretend I do to be civil or respectful of those who do.

I have never once had to declare my sexual orientation on an email signature to show solidarity to gay colleagues.

It has nothing to do with being 'inclusive' and everything to do with control.

I will.

Go on then.

@DrSbaitso

I will.

Go on then.

Do you use people’s preferred pronouns?

I see it as the opposite, actually.

Like it or not, trans people exist and we will eventually have to find a common ground. As I said above, I consider myself to be gender critical - I don’t believe trans women should be in a female prison, for example. But I do think pronouns make little difference to how we communicate, so why not?

I’d love to hear where other people draw their line.

@Pumperthepumper

Sorry, I missed my own point - I think by making a big deal out of the little things (to me, pronouns) it’s hard to be taken seriously when we talk about bigger issues.

And further clarification here.

I roll my eyes when I see it on email signatures or Zoom names (because I think it's performative) but carry on with my day. I won't be doing it though because I see gender ideology as exactly that.....a belief system. There are two biological sexes and if a biological male chooses to believe they are a woman and identify as that then they shouldn't be discriminated against but I see it as no different to someone's belief in Allah and identifying as Muslim. Which I also wouldn't expect to see on an email signature.

Do you use people’s preferred pronouns?

Yes, since before it became fashionable. But I don't actually think male people are female.

So, your views on sex based rights?

@DrSbaitso

Do you use people’s preferred pronouns?

Yes, since before it became fashionable. But I don't actually think male people are female.

So, your views on sex based rights?

So you’ll use a female name for a male-bodied person, and you’ll use their preferred pronouns but don’t want them on emails?

See above.

It's ridiculous.

Do we think people should also put things like:

Wheelchair user / can't attend meetings upstairs if there's no lift
Jehova's witness / please don't sent me a birthday card
Over 60 / no bus pass jokes please
Not pregnant / happy to be invited out for drinks

As well?

Surely anyone who was in any of the above situations would have to advocate for themselves with others if these things were important to them? They certainly wouldn't be including all of this on their email signatures at work FGS.

So you’ll use a female name for a male-bodied person, and you’ll use their preferred pronouns but don’t want them on emails?

Like I said before, I don't object to pronouns on emails per se, but I find the dominant branch of trans rights activism to be more anti-woman than pro-trans, and in that wider context it feels like forced complicity. I also haven't seen anyone doing it who wasn't she/her and whom I know to have been born female, so I'm wondering why this is a thing and who benefits. I also think it could pressure trans people who aren't ready to come out yet.

I've repeated myself. Your turn.

@DrSbaitso

So you’ll use a female name for a male-bodied person, and you’ll use their preferred pronouns but don’t want them on emails?

Like I said before, I don't object to pronouns on emails per se, but I find the dominant branch of trans rights activism to be more anti-woman than pro-trans, and in that wider context it feels like forced complicity. I also haven't seen anyone doing it who wasn't she/her and whom I know to have been born female, so I'm wondering why this is a thing and who benefits. I also think it could pressure trans people who aren't ready to come out yet.

I've repeated myself. Your turn.

My turn what?

It’s perfectly possible to have this conversation without being snide, could we give that a go?

I have a vague memory of someone with Dr in their username having a go at me being called Pumper on a similar topic, would that be you?

Ok, I see it. Cross post.

Well, if you think pronouns make so little difference to how we communicate, I can't see why you feel the need to obsessively question people on here about whether they use them in the you want them to.

@DrSbaitso

Ok, I see it. Cross post.

Well, if you think pronouns make so little difference to how we communicate, I can't see why you feel the need to obsessively question people on here about whether they use them in the you want them to.

And then the same goes for people who think they’re so important, but only for certain people.