AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

Being born in Western Europe - UK or France etc- rather than Afghanistan

Being born at the end of the 20th Century when education was opened to all

Getting on the boat from Vietnam and getting to the US where you got a green card

I could go on - but yes, people never acknowledge the luck of where they were born, in what country, in what century

The myth of linking hard work to wealth is part of the ‘Abrahamic religious / Western capitalist’ ideology that keeps the poor masses in their place by making them believe they ‘deserve’ to be there. It’s just one step removed from believing that Royals are born better 🙄

It does annoy me when people think that some people have achieved what they have because they were lucky.

I am lucky in that i was born into a life of wealth and privilege. However, I had to overcome low self esteem, low confidence, bullying at school because I was a fat, ginger swot who the boys weren't interested in and bullying by my mother because I wasn't the daughter she wanted.

I took my A levels the week after my beloved grandmother was killed by a drunk driver and had a take a year out before going to medical school because I was having a breakdown.

I ended up having to change the course of my career after I discovered that I couldn't wear a mask and so couldn't be a surgeon.

I've worked hard in my chosen professions - a public health doctor and GP. I've worked in Africa and Asia with communities who are more deprived than anyone in this country can imagine.

I put in the long hours. I took on the difficult projects, more qualifications and training I could to become the best doctor I can be.

I've worked with politicians to try and improve the health service. I've had to sit and watch as said politicians lie and manipulate the public and ignore what's best for the patients.

Yes, I'm lucky in that I don't have to worry about paying the bills. But fuck, ive worked bloody hard to get where I am now.

Reminds me of the old adage about people making their own luck. You need skill, perseverance and ability to realise an opportunity. Sorry to burst your bubble but someone is rarely (if ever) handed a successful business by luck.

Agree. The hard work equals success myth is often just another way of justifying privelage in those who have it and blaming those who don't.

Personality traits which help to make people successful are a question of luck

Optimistic, risk taking, extrovert... these really help. I have a relative who has these in abundance. She can start a successful business from nothing. I'm introverted and pessimistic. I just don't have the chutzpah! I'm not lazy

so, you worked hard AND you were lucky.

Congratulations!

@PelvicFloorTrauma

Reminds me of the old adage about people making their own luck. You need skill, perseverance and ability to realise an opportunity. Sorry to burst your bubble but someone is rarely (if ever) handed a successful business by luck.

You’ve obviously never met an aristocrat have you? Or the son of any wealthy man? Or a Saudi Prince. …..

I could list names but might get sued.

Personality traits which help to make people successful are a question of luck

Considering my personalities I doubt my parents counted them as a luck😂

I understand what you mean @MessyMissyMe it’s not everyone, just some that brag. There was a senior manager at my company who often said, very smugly “the cream rises to the top!”, unfortunately that’s not always the full truth. Some less-talented and people are definitely in the right place at the right time, and some very talented and hard-working people are everywhere but the right place at the right time. Personality and luck are key components, hard work sometimes less so.

I always eye roll at people who say this but usually when they’re using it to put other people down.

Going to uni and working hard doesn’t make you better than anyone else. Well done and everything, you did great. But don’t be arrogant about it.

If they can see the value of other people and how hard they work doing long shifts in low paid jobs, then good. They’re a high earner and respectful of others. I’m sure it’s not that difficult to be both .

But how does me saying I worked hard in any way reflect on those doing long shifts in low paid jobs?

That’s certainly not how I mean it.

To an extent I agree. Luck does play its part to a degree. There are so many variables that it's sometimes impossible to pinpoint why someone who had a secure, happy childhood and above average intellect would end up experiencing DV, discrimination in the workplace and be in a precarious financial situation.

I do accept I was lucky. Lucky to have a supportive family and I inherited some decent brains that afforded me to complete a PhD and take clever career decisions.
But these things needed graft too. I come from a very poor family. They were lovely and supportive and had the happiest childhoods but I’d be lying if I didn’t see that we were very very poor.
I worked various job at university including one that some might frown upon all this while studying.
I worked hard, 16 hour days on my first job to be noticed and progress and continue on the same path for 17 years until I’ve made enough to not worry about money.
Was I lucky? Sure, up to a point but as an Ancient Greek saying goes “Goddess Athena will help you but you need to move your hand too”

In my experience it's a lot more about being prepared to take risks - move out of your home city/country for a job, push for a promotion you might not get, change companies, invest in training or studies.

You have to be open and receptive to possibilities and have an enquiring mind to seek out opportunities rather than waiting for them to drop in your lap.

You have a biased and inaccurate view of "people who go to university".

Surely it's a mixture of both? Luck will do very little if you don't work hard.

It’s the backbone of capitalism - ‘I’m just an average person and worked hard to get where I am’. Whilst it is true of some people, a lot of ‘success’ is knowing the right people and being presented with opportunities that the ‘average’ person doesn’t have.

It’s only a combination of luck and hard work for your average Joe to be successful. Many were afforded opportunities and luck or hard work has little to do with that.

Depends on how you define ‘work hard’.

I come from a dysfunctional, NMW family. There was a lot of abuse, and very little money.

I got a place for uni abroad at 15 - yes my parents supported me going but not in any practical way.

I worked bloody hard at uni and lived off a scholarship and 3 part time jobs, plus private tutoring on top. I then moved again at 19, to a country I didn’t even speak the language of (I at least knew English the first time around).

I’ve had no support from my parents since the age of 16, don’t speak to one of them due to domestic abuse in the home, and still work 14-16 hour days regularly. Postgraduate degree and language classes on top.

I now have one of the top 3 jobs worldwide for my particular age group and niche expertise, which I got by working hard.

Are there people who work even harder and have faced even more challenging circumstances? Of course there are. It doesn’t mean I just got lucky with my life - many aspects of it yes, but I’ve also worked for it.

@Yellowbowlbanana
"santaslittlehohoho my friend works in a factory doing shifts and picking up as much overtime as she can. She's a single parent in social housing with no support from the deadbeat dad. Relationships take a back seat and she can't afford a holiday. Sadly she has noone to pick up the pieces so life can't be put on hold. She left school with no qualifications and she'd be the first to admit she's not that bright. She's worked really hard for years. Why isn't she as successful as your DH?"

Who says she isn't? How are you measuring success? I'm not saying different circumstances don't have a huge impact at all, I'm saying it's totally redundant to place all of the emphasis on luck when it comes to discussing this sort of thing. When I compared my DH I compared him directly to his friends, who grew up in largely identical circumstances, I wasn't comparing him to every person ever e.g your friend who is in totally different circumstances.

Some of this is just down to how a person's mind functions. Some people tend to attribute what happens to things outside of their control, whether they frame it as fate, god, luck, circumstance or whatever. Others will believe that they were more or less responsible, for success or for failure. And of course there's a whole spectrum in between.

So everyone will have their own take on this and if they believe that their success is down to hard work, you'll never persuade them that it wasn't, sorry. And you're unlikely to adjust your stance on the matter either.

Going to university and getting a decent job is seen as an act of rebellion in my family!
Two fingers up to hippy parents who felt that I had let them down by conforming

Yabu because everyone is different.

The book Outliers - The Story of Success looks at this subject. Its really interesting. It details tge huge amount of work to be really successful (top of your field) but also some of the luck of being born in the right place at the right time and your family values. It starts looking at how many sportsmen are are born in a particular set of months and its all down to the cut of ages for try outs for the type of sport.

I think hard work alone doesn't make you successful you do usually need to have some luck and good timing along the way.

But for most people you reap what you (or your parents) sow

Saying that dh had a terrible childhood. Had to fund his own way though uni and had to have a 3 year placement as he was so skint.

He's had it far tougher than me and he is more successful career wise than I am

One of his brothers died from substance abuse which came about to try and deal with the head fuck of his childhood and the other brother has been to prison.
.For dh it's been hard work and I guess luck that he got a temping job at a consulting firm and he now is management consultant. But if he hasn't worked harm he wouldn't have stood out in that temping job

If you have a university education and get a job in a blue chip company, there's no inevitability that you'll rise to the top. It's a pyramid, so most won't make it. And privilege alone won't propel you to the top. You have to work your hard and sacrifice lots of time to get there. Time the rest of us spend having fun.

I worked hard for my lot, so says everyone. It's about as true as all parents saying their kids are above average. Hopefully in the future we can rig people up with wattmeters to truly determine who is working the hardest.