AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

I agree with you. I've worked for everything I have, no handouts here, however:

• I had a loving stable upbringing resulting in stable MH
• I didn't go to uni (my choice and I did actually pay for my own degree later) but I was completely supported throughout school so I had good grades to take with me when I was ready.
• I'm still supported in every practical sense by my parents in my 50s, they offer advice and support in all sorts of ways, both saving money on professionals and preventing costly mistakes.
• they made it clear they would never be FT childminders but they did a lot of babysitting, enabling me to keep my career going PT when I might otherwise have given up
• I married a good man young and we stayed together. This is absolutely key to why I am in a decent financial situation now. We earned more or less the same throughout our lives, he isn't the reason for my financial security, any more than I am, but the fact that we had a good joint income during that time is. Also that we bought our first house very young.
• He died too young, but we got DC to adulthood (just) together and they never had expensive issues we needed to throw money at.
• Until his final illness we'd both had good health, which meant we were both always able to work.
• During his illness my employers were incredibly supportive , even though they barely saw me for nearly 6 months. If I'd had to give up my job in my 50s, I'd be in trouble now.

Yes I (we) did work for it all, but we had amazing good fortune to make that possible.

@MessyMissyMe

I went to University RyanReynolds. Didn’t find it particularly hard tbh!

Me neither. Obviously I did a subject without many lecture hours and also one where more personal study wouldn't have changed my marks very much.

University was the easy part. Once I started my job I worked 60 hour weeks for most of my 20s plus weekends and it has been very stressful.

I'd have much rather spent all day long in an office than a school hospital or care home but teaching nursing and care work all look like "hard work" .

Me saying I've worked hard to get where I am is true. It doesn't mean others haven't worked hard. Its just not all hard work will get you well rewarded.

@ChateauxNeufDePoop

Unless it's a lottery win or being dropped in at Director level in a family company then YABU. A stroke or two of luck is maybe needed to get to a top paying job in any profession but it can hardly ever happen without hard work.

I'd say winning the lottery involves an awful amount of luck!!

@MessyMissyMe

I went to University RyanReynolds. Didn’t find it particularly hard tbh!

Well maybe you should have challenged yourself further? Then you might be a bit less bitter about other people's success.

Plenty people work hard and yes maybe some luck. My exh became violent when I was pregnant, I needed to change career when was I returned from my short mat leave as previous job was shifts so I couldn't get childcare. I did 2 post grad qualifications while working full time as a single parent,( ex h not allowed contact and no maintenance paid) both my parents long dead by now, one when I was a child, the other a bit later but was disabled since I was a primary school child. I am now a higher rate tax payer and I worked hard to get here.

Actually SCLS that .... I miss read your post!!

I agree with you - it's luck and hard work!

@MessyMissyMe

I went to University RyanReynolds. Didn’t find it particularly hard tbh!

Maybe that's the problem OP - you never challenged yourself.

I come from a poor working class family and work really fucking hard to get what I have. Sometimes I'm sat in my bed on my lap top at 1am in the morning doing work for my business.

I work hard but I'm also prepared to take risks - which some people take as luck. Its not luck, I put myself in that position to gain that good fortune.

Some people are not prepared to do that.

We're all different aren't we? I had an abusive childhood which has shattered my self esteem, dropped out of uni, then at 30 joined the Open University, which I paid for on a minimum wage job (granted, fees were lower but I wasn't eligible for a loan), and now have a successful career as a scientist. I worked bloody hard for it against all odds!!

I agree the phrase is gratingly smug. But your perspective is very simplistic.

Success in life (financial or otherwise) is rarely down to purely luck or graft. Obviously a decent start in life (good education, parental support, disposable income) are a big help. But they don't guarantee success: I've seen numerous people with a private school/university education, affluent background go properly off the rails and end up on minimum wage/benefits. And I've seen people from working class backgrounds with no spare cash go on to achieve significant success, largely because they were encouraged by a parent or teacher.

You have to put in some degree of graft to make a success at anything. Connections can get you through the door but they won't keep you in the building in a capitalist society.

I can't stand people who tell my DP he got "lucky" to get where he is in life. No - it was years of working stupid hours, always being on call and working even when on holiday, relationships and life taking a second seat etc. The only people who call him "lucky" are his friends (who all grew up in the same family and social circumstances) but have largely spent the last 10 years unmotivated and not working hard.

I don't doubt that luck can occasionally help people - being in the right place at the right time etc but I think it's largely used to take people's achievements and minimise them whilst making other people feel better about things by blaming it on luck not hard work.

*scrap that even!!!

I'll give up now 🙈

I get your point but YABU to get annoyed. One thing I’ve learnt is that you never really know the struggles people go through in their lives. People look like they “have it all” but have been through hell to get there. Most people have good enough physical health to not be disadvantaged that way.

I know plenty of people who have done extremely well but have had terrible childhoods, involving abuse and foster care. They’ve worked hard, worked smart, crucially, and have a bouts of good luck thrown their way

Likewise I know plenty of university educated people with excellent health and stable childhoods who aren’t doing “well” in the financial sense and may never own their own home for example.

So there’s no point getting annoyed

I don't doubt that luck can occasionally help people - being in the right place at the right time etc but I think it's largely used to take people's achievements and minimise them whilst making other people feel better about things by blaming it on luck not hard work.

Luck always plays a part to some degree. That doesn't detract from anyone's achievement or hard work. I think it's very arrogant to deny the existence of luck.

Chloemol It does. It gave you the genes that facilitated your resilience and hardwork. There is always an element of luck.

I grew up with a pretty shitty childhood. Alcoholic abusive father, homeless at 16. Worked three jobs during my a levels. Ultimately I've done pretty well for myself. Yes I've worked damn hard but if I hadn't had some intelligence genes passed down and my parents showed no value in my education then I wouldn't be where I am today.

We are allowed to recognise that both hard work and luck play a part.

I came across this cartoon strip a while back, and I think it sums it up perfectly. Yes you worked hard - but hard work is not the only thing required.

www.boredpanda.com/privilege-explanation-comic-strip-on-a-plate-toby-morris/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

So everyone who does better than you is just lucky and your failure has nothing to do with you?

Didnt have the advantages you think everyone does, worked hard and didnt make bad luck an excuse, just went on regardless. Being intelligent is lucky - but hard work, determination and not looking for excuses will take you a long way.

Incidentally, I'm a university academic and this is one of my areas of research. It's widely acknowledged that luck or chance plays a part in career Development.
What is interesting is that 'lucky' people tend to share similar attributes some of which have been mentioned on this thread.
They include:

Optimistic outlook
Willing to take a risk
Hard working
Open mindedness
Willingness to make the most of opportunities
Have a clear focus or plan

santaslittlehohoho my friend works in a factory doing shifts and picking up as much overtime as she can. She's a single parent in social housing with no support from the deadbeat dad. Relationships take a back seat and she can't afford a holiday. Sadly she has noone to pick up the pieces so life can't be put on hold. She left school with no qualifications and she'd be the first to admit she's not that bright. She's worked really hard for years. Why isn't she as successful as your DH?

I find it odd that people say 'I have worked hard'

And some people hear 'you just dont work hard enough'

I think it takes all sorts.

Luck has a lot to do with it, as does personality and intelligence. I never went to uni, grew up on a council estate, no handouts from parents or anyone. But I did do things for my career that a lot of people wouldn't have done, such as take the shifty jobs, relocate, put myself out, and yes 'I did work hard' late nights, blah blah. But I also consider myself lucky too. But it could also be seen as a positive outlook. Glass half full type person which has always seen me right and means I tend to 'get on' with bosses and people like me and this makes them more inclined to help/support/encourage me. Working hard is only part of why I now consider myself well paid, in a good job I enjoy etc

Yes a lack of humility is annoying. But YABU to generalise. It sounds like you assume everyone successful is a clueless privileged shit who had it all handed to them.

Obviously not all hard work results in the kind of success society celebrates or even recognises as success.

Luck is a much broader concept than people realise.
It includes where and when you were born, your sex/gender, the school you attended, your parents attitude to education, government policy, and unplanned events such as bereavement or illness and even a global pandemic!

There are lots of people who work bloody hard but have found themselves unemployed because the industry they worked in has been negatively impacted at covid and lockdowns.

Very goady OP @MessyMissyMe

Of course most successful people have worked hard. They may have been lucky and privileged too but how ridiculous to say they’ve not worked hard.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

I have worked hard. I could have not bothered my arse at school and uni, I could have put in fewer hours at work, I could have not bothered to do any professional development or networking. I wouldn’t be where I am if I hadn’t have worked hard.

That doesn’t mean I haven’t had some privileges, but honestly, most of them came from the fact that my parents worked ridiculously hard and made a whole load of sacrifices. None of what they got was due to luck.

It is true that people can work hard all their lives and go nowhere, but that doesn’t mean everyone who succeeds does so only because of luck.