AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

I don't think it's purely luck, no.

I did work very hard to have what I have now. Not to say others didn't, but I did.

My parents are generally nice people but my childhood wasn't all that stable in all honesty. Long story but some of the choices they made weren't great and I remember us really struggling for money.

I don't ever remember them helping with homework. They didn't attend any of my secondary school parents evenings.

I had a part time job from 14 so I could buy things for myself.

I went to uni but my parents didn't support me financially at all. I used student loans and summer work. Read Physics so an intense degree.

I trained as a teacher and have worked hard at the job and additional qualifications to achieve promotions.

So,no, I don't think I was just lucky.

DP and I work hard. Neither of us have been to university. He's doing incredibly well and I'm well on my way career-wise.

People who throw shade on other peoples success are generally the ones who expect results without putting in the work.

I think luck comes into most things but YABU to say others' success is "just" luck.

What do you do? Is it because you were lucky / unlucky?

It’s possible to acknowledge that one had advantages (supportive parents, natural talent, good health etc.) while also saying that success took hard work and not squandering those advantages. Perhaps for example doing a degree they were less interested in but that offered secure and well paid employment afterwards. Or doing a high stress, high responsibility job they don’t actually enjoy but that pays well. Or not spending their inheritance on a gap year travelling Asia but on a deposit for a flat. Or being the slightly picked on kid that did all their homework, prioritised their revision etc etc. Yes, inheritance or being able to afford university is all privilege, but there were choices in there too. Saying they worked hard is obviously far too simplistic but to say it was solely down to luck or random chance is also an absurd simplification. My experience is that the most successful people (in a material sense) have indeed worked hard, albeit often (but not always) from a position of substantial privilege.

I agree though that I’d like to see low paid caring type roles better valued, I certainly wouldn’t say they aren’t hard work.

I agree OP. I grew up fairly poor and dropped out of uni (and depending on the course, no I don’t think everyone who goes to uni works hard, some courses are a piece of piss) but I’ve done pretty well by pestering/networking my way into the career I wanted, and have a better job than many people who graduated from the course I dropped out of.

But luck is a huge factor. My parents didn’t have much money but were culturally engaged and intelligent and passed this to me; I was lucky i had a family friend in London to stay with while I did unpaid interning, I’m lucky to be pushy, well-spoken and outgoing and not easily intimidated by a closed-shop industry where many people had far more opportunities (and wealth) than me; I’m lucky to have got jobs I applied for and been in the right place at the right time to be recommended for freelance work.

Honestly, now I’ve got to the level I’m at, I don’t really need to work hard anymore. In my experience, the higher you rise through the ranks the less actual work you have to do. I worked MUCH harder while working in retail and trying to get my desired career off the ground in my spare time than I do now.

Part hard work, part luck.

I quite like this, showing different starting points affecting outcomes

www.rnz.co.nz/news/the-wireless/373065/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate

I think either extreme of this argument is wrong.

I didn't go to university. Grew up in a single parent household for most of it. And the parent had mental health issues. I was taught education, wasn't important for girls and was expected to be a sahm then work part time once the kids were older. So why bother.

Dbro did go to uni. He got a grant. By the time I went it was loans. Which is why he could go.

I now have kids, but always worked. Worked incredibly hard and have been a single parent during those times.

I have consistently worked with a focus of improving my CV. I am almost 40 and earn more than anyone would have ever guessed.

However, there has been luck along the way. But I also had to take advantage of those opportunities.

One way I was very luck is about 5 years ago I had an incredible series leadership team, that really put alot into developing their staff. Happening to have that available to me was luck.

Taking advantage of that and using that as a resource was not. That was me choosing to take extra on and listen to their advice and use it.

Some of my colleagues didn't and now are still in similar roles while I have progressed. They would say I am lucky, i would say was just a lucky as them and then took it a step further.

But no one can deny luck plays a part in it.

It’s hard work and luck, usually.
Many people are blind to many of the privileges they’ve had and just see them as “normal”, so they only see their own hard work (which in itself should be valued).

Personally I was kicked out of the house at 17, spent a lot of time just trying to keep the bills paid and struggling with bad physical and mental health. I’m hoping to apply to uni next year, when I’ll be 32.

Sometimes I got annoyed about it, like when I worked at a store that had a lot of students as customers. I had students come in and gush about how independent they are now while their parents were stood next to them paying £300 to buy them everything they needed to start uni.

I’m sure people like that work hard, but people stuck in dead end jobs work hard, people who had a rough start work hard- it’s offensive when people act like it was their hard work alone that got them to success.

Just because someone says they worked hard to get where they are, isn't a certainty that they think anyone who isn't in their position or better; hasn't worked or doesn't currently work hard.

100% agree.

Tend to be the same people who say "well if you don't have avocado on toast every day, you'd be able to afford a house deposit".

Surely it is usually a combination of both? Why so black and white? Why can't someone who, albeit with fortune of birthplace and family and physical and mental ability has worked hard not be proud of what they have accomplished through work and talent? Why does this have to be compared to anyone else?

And there are plenty of people with absolutely ample opportunity who do choose to party, not work hard etc and then begrudge the fact that the have not gotten anywhere.

Working hard is a bit of a fallacy. You could work hard every day in a minimum wage job for the rest of your life. Success needs other things.... personality, luck, risk taking, talent

Most people its luck and hard work.

I worked bloody hard for what I have and to get where I am now and how dare you disparage it.

Left school at 16. Dead end jobs. Crappy marriage. Kids.

Divorced. Terrible time. Council house.

Went to tech and did access course. Then to uni. Massive student debt. All while supporting my kids by myself because their father won’t pay a penny.

I’m almost finished a phd and I’m a high rate tax payer.

I worked fucking hard to get here. There was no luck it was just hard work and I did it on my own. No family support except my kids are kinda proud of me.

It's because people still keep trotting out work hard, when it's actually work smart🙄

It's a combo of factors, but you can't really be that bitter about someone taking risks someone else refused to take.
Eg. I emigrated. I took massive risk to go and learn language and get experience in another country. Mate chose to stay for a boyfriend. One of us is making more money than the other.
Sometimes it's luck. Some if it is luck. Lots of it isn't.

It’s both.
The view that it’s all luck is really narrow. Go and meet some people from immigrant communities who had nothing and worked hard. And they had racism to deal with as well.

I went to a private school with a surprisingly diverse intake thanks to the assisted place scheme. Looking at the girls I was there with I can tell you virtually all of them have followed similar paths to their parents. Very few of us break free from our upbringings

This feels like another one of those race to the bottom scenarios.
Why is not ok to simply celebrate people’s achievements.
Success is relative and is a mixture of luck AND hard work.
Everyone has things that work in their favour and things that don’t.
Plenty of healthy, privileged people have difficult lives for a myriad of reasons.
Why is it always ‘well you had it easier than me therefore you don’t deserve it’
I’m bloody lucky for many reasons. I still work hard though.

Lucky isn’t the same as being handed success on a plate though is it?

There is absolutely a large element of luck in being successful and coming across opportunities you can take up at the right time. The same way that a dose of bad luck can completely unravel decades of hard work. Basically there are always elements contributing to success that you have no control over, good or bad, and that’s just the way it is.

I don’t know why people think that acknowledging that thinks it takes anything away from their hard work. Good luck and hard work aren’t mutually exclusive.

But I do count myself as lucky all the time, v.v lucky to be born where I was qnd with nice parents etc, it is a regular thought that I am lucky when I think about people in war torn countries, living in poverty, with abusive families, dealing with disabilities etc, just incredibly lucky full stop.

There are things I feel unlucky about (some health issues etc) but overall I am still lucky

Luck and hard work are both important, of course, but so are the choices we make.

@Smartiepants79

This feels like another one of those race to the bottom scenarios. Why is not ok to simply celebrate people’s achievements. Success is relative and is a mixture of luck AND hard work. Everyone has things that work in their favour and things that don’t. Plenty of healthy, privileged people have difficult lives for a myriad of reasons. Why is it always ‘well you had it easier than me therefore you don’t deserve it’ I’m bloody lucky for many reasons. I still work hard though.

It makes people feel better about themselves🤷🏻

YANBU. Implicit in the 'I've worked hard...' statement is a suggestion that others have not worked hard enough, otherwise they would have the same, which is arrant nonsense.

It’s hard work dedication luck blood sweat and tears. My husband has always been self employed it’s always highs and lows. We have had 5 failed bussiness in the 15 years we have been together. He’s been a millionaire and bankrupt in that time. He has always been hard working and kept going. Things now are better then ever hard work pays off. But you 100% need the luck aswell.

All I mean when I say I’ve worked hard is … I’ve worked hard.

It’s no judgement on anyone else at all.