AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

I know what you mean but it is not fair to say people who went to Uni had some kind of luck in their life.
I will give you my story.

Came to this country when 21, couldn't speak English. Had a child and went to Uni at 26. Science degree. Then went to do a PhD funded by a very prestigious funder. Had to work really hard to get it.
My parents had no money, I was never given anything for free. I also had some pretty bad stuff happening, my child is a cancer survivor, my Dad died suddenly at the of my PhD. So it's not like I had exactly an easy life.
I would say I worked hard to get to where I am.

But I understand not everybody is not like me and I wouldn't call anybody a loser for not going to Uni, not having their own business, etc. I don't like the : "If I can do it, anyone can" attitude.

Basically, I am not judging anyone and neither should you.

Can you give a specific example OP? Is this somebody you know? I can’t quite catch your train of thought.

Crikey.
I don't credit luck with my success. (If we are measuring success as financial comfort not happiness). I had no inherited wealth, no family financial or practical support (lived too far away). I worked hard to get to University then found I had to battle extreme sexism to get to the top in the workplace. No family to help out with childcare and for many years worked to pay for childcare. No help with house deposit - just had to buy in cheaper areas and crawl up the ladder. Didn't marry money either.
Delayed having children til I was financially secure and didn't run up debt to own things I couldn't afford.
Health - not failing, so I guess that is 'luck' of the draw, but there were many as clever as me at school who chose other options than working hard or staying at school. Many of these found success without academic accomplishments and many got a leg up with parental or grandparent support. Good for them.

Healthier all round to measure success by happiness and contentment. Healthier also to accept our own personal choices can influence the direction of our lives - but a giant boulder of misfortune (health, bereavement etc) can fall across anybodies best laid plans or aspirations.

I was first person in my family to go to university. One of my parents died when I was in school. My home was violent at times.

None of those things feel particularly lucky. I definitely have had luck in my life, some of it outside of my control and some of it because I had made good choices before. However, I also worked hard when opportunities arose. I took risks and worked long hours.

Its rarely one thing or the other. Some people don't get chances in life or circumstances trip them up. Some people don't bother. Others get it handed to them on a plate. For most of us, we get some chances and good luck and some times when we hit a wall despite our hard work but in the end very few people succeed with no effort at all.

My financial success doesn't make me better or morally superior to anyone else. I don't rate my contribution to society as higher than someone working hard on a hospital ward or caring for a child with SN. I think that is the real issue that you are getting at - its not just about whether or not luck played a part but those people who claim some sort of moral high ground because they are successful. They are not intrinsically better people; just wealthier.

I agree to an extent.

No doubt many people in successful careers did work hard to get there, but no harder than someone born into poverty or growing up in an abusive home. Many of those people have had to work extremely hard just to get by.

Background and opportunity play a huge part.

I worked hard to get where I am but I definitely didn’t go to University. I was so poor I became an escort then worked very hard on my body and became a porn actress. Luckily I don’t have to do that ever again and I have a lovely dp (female) whom accepts I did what I did to make sure my children never had to find themselves in financial hardship.

Yes it was an awful part of my life but I am glad I did it so the dc don’t have to worry.

It depends on what you consider luck. Having a decent start with a good stable home and supportive parents I suppose is lucky. Lots of people who succeed have had neither of those things and still do well. There is no substitute for hard work though.

@MessyMissyMe

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

Nope. I have worked hard to get where I am, in a job I trained for. No family privilege snd more than a little bad luck on the way. I am where I am because if hard work in the face of adversity and a determination not to give in during those times. I'm not particularly well paid but I'm doing what I really really want to do. So YABU and you sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder?

I suppose you could, at a pinch, say my dad was lucky to survive the Holocaust, being in the right place at the right time, and by taking advantage of the opportunities presented to him at any point. Or would 'lucky' actually have been not being there in the first place?

Perhaps he was lucky to end up in the UK 15y later, never mind that he was penniless. Couldn't even afford sixpence to keep the gas on once he and mum had cooked their bedsit supper.

So, yes, my parents did work hard to get where they are, with no support from their parents, and certainly no secure, happy childhoods to build up their self belief.

My dad says "I made my own luck".

@HelloMissus

People often tell me I’m lucky to have a really successful business. Yes I am. But it didn’t fall into my lap with a sprinkle of fairy dust. I had to do a lot of things most people wouldn’t - I had to take risks, work stupid hours, travel a lot.

Same here. DH has run several successful businesses over the years, he started his very first one while still at university.

He has also routinely worked 16 hour days, worked most weekends, worked through the night more times than I can count. He's missed birthdays and anniversaries many times and had to cancel holidays at the last minute, or cut them short. Oh and he also tends to work whilst on holiday. He's taken huge risks and gambled everything a few times and luckily he chose wisely.

Most people aren't prepared to take those risks or live like that.

It's almost certainly a combination (different for all) of hard work, luck, privilege, grit, and an ability to spot opportunities.

The risk in denying the part hard work plays is that people get a defeatist view and think they can't use grit /hard work etc to create more opportunities to be "lucky"

I have had plenty of adversity to overcome (bereavements, illness, abuse, homelessness) but I doubt most people who meet me now have any idea what I have worked through on my journey to success. It's surely a good thing if I am open about the late evenings and teeth gritting moments that helped turn my life around?

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

I know some people who now work hard in minimum wage jobs, and live in social housing, who had happy childhoods, supportive parents, intellect, good educational opportunities etc - but they were lazy and couldn’t be bothered.
Would you say that someone who had a terrible childhood with minimal opportunities , but made the most of it and is now in a well paid profession , doesn’t deserve their success more?
Because that makes no sense to me.

OP I don’t know what your studied at university, or what you do now, and how financially rewarding it is. But if you found your degree easy, I expect you were one of the students who had a handful of lectures a week, and didn’t challenge yourself. Meanwhile I was a medical student - 9-5, Mon-Fri for 5 years, and exams every few weeks. It wasn’t luck that kept me going, it was hard work.

I had an abusive childhood, started work at 16 and was working 3-4 jobs at a time to be able to afford a shitty houseshare and build a career in childcare. I funded myself through uni. I chased the money for my 20s and 30s to build up savings, often moving cities and scrimping every penny. Then I met hubby and got married and found out I was infertilty and it took 10 years of ivf to have a baby. I haven’t been ‘lucky’ - in fact I guarantee that others who experienced even half I did would have curled up in a ball and not bothered. What I am is resilient and ambitious. When I want something I am so driven to make it happen even if it takes a while.

It isn't all down to pure luck. Dont you ever watch Rich House Poor House?

@RyanReynoldsHusband

Are you saying people who go to university don’t work hard?

You sound extremely bitter.

There is no particular correlation between working hard and earning a lot of money.

Try a few 12-hour shifts as a care assistant on minimum wage if you don't believe me.

@Dentistlakes

It depends on what you consider luck. Having a decent start with a good stable home and supportive parents I suppose is lucky. Lots of people who succeed have had neither of those things and still do well. There is no substitute for hard work though.

And lots of paper are lucky enough to have these things, but do not achieve because they do not put the work in.

I don’t really want to reveal my job but I left school with no qualifications, worked hard in retail and ended up on 40k ish a year by about 2010 i retail management.

I chanced on a job ad that was mon-fri, with car but less pay. I applied and got it. The job was tedious but quickly evolved to become very interesting and the pay has quadrupled since I took it on in 2011. In reality most days I work 2 hours at most, from home. If I want to go to a location anywhere in the country, I can, and don’t have to justify myself.

The downsides are that when the phone rings it’s serious, I need to make huge decisions more or less immediately and I need to get them right.

I love the job and would never leave, there’s only a handful of us in the country and it’s not a job anyone has ever heard of that I’ve met.

I got bloody lucky, really lucky

There are people in senior positions who have worked incredibly hard to get to where they are. They went to university and have professional qualifications.

There are also people who work hard, have a degree but haven't really gotten far or progressed in their careers, for many reasons.

There are those who don't go to university but get lucky in an entry-level job. They stay where they are and 10 years later are made director, earn a fortune but don't have valuable qualifications and have largely coasted by through luck and the occasional hard week.

Then there are those with no real qualifications, no ambition and no drive. They stay in the same low-paid role for 15 years counting but have their parents buy them a house and a car, and who seem to think they're the peers of working professionals.

Luck, personality, hard work, intellect and ambition all play a part. I certainly know people who are incredibly well paid who rarely seem to stretch themselves. I also know people who've moved jobs sideways and seen their wage double. But this post seems very bitter.

@MessyMissyMe

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

I think it depends.....

I have a successful career and would say I've worked my ass off for it. Yes I was lucky in terms of parents, upbringing etc. But I also spent years of my life studying while working nights & weekends to pay rent and buy food etc. Wasn't handed to me on a plate

I continued to work hard and was very career focussed for the 10 years I was married. Husband had an affair which I discovered on mat leave so for financial reasons I had to go back to work early. Last 9 years I've slogged my guts out to raise dc as a single independent mum while working full time.

On the other hand I have a friend who has never worked full time. She lived at home working part time in retail til she met her stbxh. Once she met him she stopped working - even before she had kids. 2 kids & 8 years of not working later she's left him as she never loved him but wanted a certain lifestyle.

She's feeling sorry for herself and told me I'll never understand her situation as I'm LUCKY that I can afford a lifestyle that she can't

My reply was that the difference between our 2 situations was nothing to do with luck. Took a while for us both to get over that "discussion"

I'd much rather have worked part time in retail throughout my 20s followed by being a sahm for 8 - but it wasn't an option. I would say she was LUCKY to have had the lifestyle she's had for minimal effort until now

@SnarkyBag

Some people work hard and become highly paid. Some people work hard and are poorly paid. Some people have shit luck and lots of hurdles but still become successful. Some people have no hurdles and opportunities available but don’t become highly paid in their jobs 🤷‍♀️

This in spades! I didn't go to uni. Just never happened. And I had a pretty unconventional childhood with lots of change and hurdles. How did I get to where I am (and I think I've done alright)? Gumption. Work. Determination. Huge motivation to be better. I do think pretty much anyone with enough grit and ambition can get to anywhere they want to. To blame other peoples 'luck' for your lack of ambition is really defeatest.

Do you think this bunch of silver-spooners had to work hard to get on the golden ladder?

I think it's unfair that you would assume anyone who is a success is either lucky or has had it handed to them on a plate.

Why? Because it dents your ego? Makes you feel you have less control and safety in your life?

Unfair is labelling everyone living in poverty or deprivation or disability as "lazy" or undeserving of anything better.

* There is no particular correlation between working hard and earning a lot of money.*

Try a few 12-hour shifts as a care assistant on minimum wage if you don't believe me.

I was a care assistant who worked 12 hour shifts (often on toilet and bathing duties because I was young and strong) and can categorically say I find running a nursery with 300 students (and being a nursery practitioner) more difficult.

What’s that saying? “The harder I work the luckier I get”…the kids at Dh and I school who pissed about and disrupted our lessons and did sod all work are now are not successful and have dead end manual jobs. Hey ho. Don’t have it in me to feel particularly sorry for them. They could have worked hard too but were too busy being cool and slagging people like us off for being boring squares 😁

Id agree some of those who are successful don’t recognise they’ve been lucky, but equally some of those who aren’t have a tough time recognising they’re lazy or make poor choices.

“Hard work” to me isn’t always intended in the literal sense of manual labour or working hours - but in terms of pushing oneself, taking opportunities when you can and making the most of any situation. Certain people are just better at that than others, and sometimes it’s seen as luck.