If you start work at 9 am, is it OK to walk through the door at 9 am ?

[mmhhhkkkk]

Or is that a bit ' late ' ?

I worked for the NHS and was expected to be in scrubs and in theatres at 8am (start time). That is when my shift started. In my previous role, people would take the piss and sit in the changing room chatting for ages and rock up to their ward 20 min after they were due to start. We ended up having an actual clocking in machine in the end to put a stop to it.

I have mixed feelings about this. I’ve experienced the ‘ready to work by 9’ phenomenon. It’s everywhere. However, I disagree with it because if I only start getting paid at 9 then someone’s else should be going around booting up all the laptops at 8:50! An extra 10 mins a day isn’t much but it adds up; it could be the difference between someone dropping their kids at school and needing a breakfast club. Most folks with laptops that take ages to boot up also use that time to make a coffee in my experience so no huge loss there?. I do agree that staff shouldn’t be wandering off to the canteen or loo etc. if they literally just arrived at work. My exceptions to the opinions above would be call centre/service desk staff for obvious reasons but out with the structure of providing a timed service like those, I don’t believe in subsidising a profitable business by coming in early and **unpaid to allow time for the (possibly crap) laptop they provided me with to boot up. Just because a bunch of multi million (or billion) pound businesses say something is so, doesn’t mean it’s right. Also, women are most heavily burdened and negatively impacted by this business cultural norm. I’ve seen many a woman sacked or put on a ‘personal development plan’ for consistently being late (arriving at 9 or possibly 9:05) as they try to juggle their multiple lives/roles within society. These have all been wonderfully experienced, technically excellent and dedicated women but apparently that all counts for nothing if you haven’t got your arse parked at your desk by 8:55 AND with a fucking smile mind you because what… ladies? That’s right, “smile, it might never happen”

Its actually something my company have addressed we have changed the sales office teams contracts from 9-5 to 8.45 to 5.15 and have given them a 7.5% increase in salary on top of their usual yearly increase, we did a lot of work before we put it to them, so far everyone is happy with the new hours and pay

@mmhhhkkkk

Hey everyone ! Sorry for the silence! Great debate.

When I worked in an office, I always came in at least 15 minutes before 9, just to settle down and chill a bit before starting. Coming in at 9 on the dot just didn't set me up well for the day.

I don't care what time my other colleagues come in at all and wouldn't judge.

The question was more about my current nanny. She comes in at 9 on the dot.

Thanks for all the replies !

I would say you are being unreasonable and should change your nanny's start time and pay them accordingly if necessary - I would not see a nanny arriving at the contracted time as late. I wouldn't expect the settling in on her side to take more than 5 minutes though.

I haven't had a nanny but had some similar childcare at some points and I wouldn't expect them to arrive earlier than I said. Also because they were going to be alone with kids/babies then depending how old the children were and how far they have to travel I would think it reasonable to build in 5 - 10 minutes (max) for them to go go to the toilet and get a drink while we handover. This also allows a bit of goodwill if you are 5 minutes late occasionally.

I do agree that staff shouldn’t be wandering off to the canteen or loo etc.

If I go to the loo as soon as I arrive it probably indicates I've been stuck in traffic (above and beyond the norm) and it is less of a wander and more knocking everyone over as I make a bolt for it.

I've worked in retail and we had to be on the shop floor 5 minutes before or start time or 10 minutes if we started at opening time.

Current office job, if I'm starting at 9 I can arrive at 9, but it is walk in, turn on computer, and then kettle on, ask who else wants tea and checking that days to do list/chatting with colleagues about if they need anything done that day that isn't in the diary/answering various questions etc./checking notes left on my desk. I don't need to be sat at my PC to have started doing work.

Everyone in my small office has a contract which specifies the number of hours we're paid to work every week, but doesn't specify start/finish times. Some of us like starting early, some start after the morning rush hour, some do condensed days. Totally flexible. We all work really hard, nobody clock-watches and nobody takes advantage of it. Obviously this couldn't work in all settings but it's rather nice.

Of course depends on your job. The ability to see what is needed in your work is art of you being a good worker. But meaningless “clocking in” when you work hard maybe over a bit at end of day is treating an employee like a robot.

Where I work we used to have an issue with scanners going missing. We needed them to do the job and couldn't do anything without them.
Often spent 30 minutes searching for one but no way I would turn up 30 minutes before work unpaid just to search for equipment.
Thankfully the issue has been resolved now. We never used to get in trouble though. Not our fault people couldn't put things back where they found them.

Don't people eat breakfast anymore? Why are they making coffee and porridge immediately after arriving at work? An occasional emergency I can understand but every day? I can't imagine doing that at work.

@sue20

Of course depends on your job. The ability to see what is needed in your work is art of you being a good worker. But meaningless “clocking in” when you work hard maybe over a bit at end of day is treating an employee like a robot.

Well yes the whole clocking in thing also encourages certain attitudes. If you're treated like a child, you'll act like one.

I don't do office work any more, but when I did, if I was in the building, whether I was at my desk or making my morning coffee, I would consider myself to be at work. I could never be doing with any of this ludicrous attitude of 'you must be sat logged on for every minute you've been hired'. My quality of work was excellent and efficiently done, regardless of the chatting and making coffee. People aren't robots, and you get more out of them if you respect them and let them work autonomously.

I worked with a lady who would come in for 9, make her coffee, make her porridge, got for a wee and then she'd turn her machine on ... often being 20 minutes late actually getting going and she always thought the partner she worked for was unreasonable as her attitude was 'But I'm here?!?' ... used to make me so cross but it always came back to bite her on the arse come pay rise time 🤷‍♀️ Again ... always surprised then too

@DrCoconut

Don't people eat breakfast anymore? Why are they making coffee and porridge immediately after arriving at work? An occasional emergency I can understand but every day? I can't imagine doing that at work.

We'd be disciplined for this, we're not allowed to eat or drink (we can have water) unless we're on break and away from desk. Don't get it either.

@grisen

I hate handovers with a passion. I used to work nights and we had to be there 15 mins early UNPAID for it. However the AM managers rarely came in until on the dot so we usually had to stay another 15-30 UNPAID. I left very quickly and took my entire team with me. No way is anyone getting 2.5-4 HOURS PER WEEK of my work for free.

This ^^ pissed me off big time when I was nursing. Effectively the NHS got at least an unpaid hour a day off me. I always arrived early enough for the handover staff to leave on time but rarely was that reciprocated, more fool me!

@DrCoconut

Don't people eat breakfast anymore? Why are they making coffee and porridge immediately after arriving at work? An occasional emergency I can understand but every day? I can't imagine doing that at work.

I sometimes ate breakfast at work, other people did as well. My work was fine with us eating at our desks. Of course this was pre-pandemic and we're all still working from home.

I would also say we don't work fixed hours, it's very much a case of as long as you're there when you need to be, for meetings and so on, you can work whatever hours you like.

Essentially we're treated as responsible adults and in return we're committed and dedicated employees who will willingly go the extra mile when needed.

We'd be disciplined for this, we're not allowed to eat or drink (we can have water) unless we're on break and away from desk.

Oh this is so sad to read! I can't imagine, as a grown adult, willingly working for some arsehole who dictates when you can have a snack or a coffee. Terrible behaviour from this company!

@SkyDragon

I don't do office work any more, but when I did, if I was in the building, whether I was at my desk or making my morning coffee, I would consider myself to be at work. I could never be doing with any of this ludicrous attitude of 'you must be sat logged on for every minute you've been hired'. My quality of work was excellent and efficiently done, regardless of the chatting and making coffee. People aren't robots, and you get more out of them if you respect them and let them work autonomously.

Well said! No point in presenteeism for the sake of it.

@SkyDragon

We'd be disciplined for this, we're not allowed to eat or drink (we can have water) unless we're on break and away from desk.

Oh this is so sad to read! I can't imagine, as a grown adult, willingly working for some arsehole who dictates when you can have a snack or a coffee. Terrible behaviour from this company!

Is that really in an office? Sounds more like a customer-facing environment, like a till or a shop. Reception desk maybe? Offices tend to run on tea and coffee so this would be hard for lots of people.

Late. If my guys did this they wouldn't be ready to begin at start time & the handover of the previous shift would then be late home. If a shift is 9am start you should be starting at 9. I always give myself 20 mins ish so I've got time to get a coffee & say good morning to everyone on the way through. That's also factoring in nursery drop off just before. Being a manager you always get people nagging you (love it really) before you have even taken your coat off.

If my guys did this they wouldn't be ready to begin at start time & the handover of the previous shift would then be late home.
It doesn't make sense to me that you think it's acceptable for staff to be in 'early' to do a handover (which is included in their duties by the sounds of it therefore should be after their "start time"), but not acceptable that people should leave late. How can you so blasé claim the ten minutes before a shift while simultaneously not want to encroach on the ten minutes after their shift?

Also, pay them for when you need them, surely?