If you start work at 9 am, is it OK to walk through the door at 9 am ?

[mmhhhkkkk]

Or is that a bit ' late ' ?

I agree with @Whitefire

@linsey2581 you shouldn't be seeing patients whose appointments are 9am, at 8.40 am to 8.45am, purely because they got there early. They are early and should wait. Some people get very arsey (and aren't patient like whitefire's mother...) and demand to be seen immediately. Even when they're early. You see them too often (when they're early,) and they will expect it, and so will your boss. You are making a rod for your own back here.

One couple turned up at our local Boots for their flu jab half hour early one day last October, and got proper snotty with the pharmacist because he wouldn't drop everything and go do their flu jabs. He wouldn't budge and made them wait til 30 seconds before their appointment time. Give people an inch and they take a mile.

See people earlier than their time if you wish, and if it's possible, but starting work 20 minutes before you even start getting paid, (to see these people who have turned up early,) as some people have suggested, is utter bollocks, and results in greedy and bad employers taking advantage of their staff. (Like my manager did as I mentioned much further back in the thread.)

Depends on the job. If she's there, she's there, on duty for the kids just like you are?

Do you shoo her out of the door at her finish time? 🤔

I had a direct report that believed the start of the shift was walking in the door at that time. The problem was it was a massive office building and it then took him about 20 minutes to get to his desk and sitting down ready to work. It was a 20-person team where each position depended on the other person's input and everyone else was ready to work at the start of their shift.

In that case, your facilities management urgently needed to instal some lifts/escalators/moving floors (like at airports) in the building, or otherwise build more suitable entrances/car parks/drop-off points for reasonable employee workspace access. I used to live 6 miles away from my workplace over a county border and into the edge of a city and it took me 15 minutes to drive there, door to door and sit at my desk - how can it take somebody five more minutes than that to get from one part of a building to another? And if it genuinely does, I would say that any half-decent employer would take these exceptional circumstances into account and build in extra paid time to get there. What did he do if he wanted to have an actual break during his lunch time – if he got a full hour, two thirds of it would be wasted on travelling to and from his desk, and if he only got half an hour, he might as well not have had any time at all.

MidsummerMimi

Thanks for explaining all of that. In that case, you clearly do far more than pay them for the extra time already, so I’d say you are fully justified. Bit of a massive drip-feed, though….

Wow.. I cant believe you're asking this question. Its a total piss take and speaks volumes for you as a person in my opinion

I completely agree with you.
Wait: you are referring to the employer expecting their staff to work unpaid for hours every week, aren’t you….?

I wonder how many of those insisting that it’s simply the ‘decent’ and ‘proper’ thing to do to come in early and start the beginning of your working day unpaid are also the sort who are very British about other things as well – apologising when somebody stands on your foot or feeling eternally mortified if anybody hears you do the tiniest little fart out in public. (I’m British too, before anybody says anything).

I’m just trying to imagine your average German employee accept without complaint or utter bewilderment that their contracted, paid start time is 8am, which means that they must be clocked in, all set and ready to go by 7:45. No personal choice in it or flexitime involved: simply that it’s the ‘requirement of your job contract’ to work the first X minutes every day for free. Never mind, as a PP said “If you’re bang on time, that means you’re late”! Speaking stereotypically on a national scale, I think I know which of us has by far the healthier and more sensible idea – and as a nation, they’re not especially known for their lack of drive or efficiency, are they….?

In my first job, I was always at work and working half an hour early. I only took 20 minutes for lunch. I got permission to leave five minutes early in the evening to avoid the rush hour. Ther only clock in the office was an ancient alarm clock that lost 15 minutes a day - this was 40 years ago, no internet. One day I’d forgotten to put my watch on so I had to guess my finish time and left a bit early. I was pulled up on it although I’d been in the office 30 minutes early. I was told ‘you must work your contract hours’. So I said ‘fine, in future it’s 9 to 5 and an hour for lunch.’ I never worked a minute of overtime in that job again. I would stop writing in the middle of a sentence. We got computers and it was fab because I could see the time down to the last minute.

Most jobs, especially salaried ones, you would be expected to actually start work at "9" and anyone walking in then would be classed as late. But this is in a work environment, not in the home.

I haven't had a nanny, so the closest I can equate it to is a babysitter. I think it is fair enough for her to be walking through your door at 9 as I expect she has an hourly rate (walking in, not pulling up in the car).. OP if you expected her to get to you a few minutes before, you should have explained that when she started but then she should be able to leave a few minutes before "5".

OP what effect does this 5 minutes have on your life? Does it make you 5 minutes late for your work? Or is it just something that niggles you? I wonder if when she finishes she talks to you about your dc/their day (not that she should stay to do this)? If you are getting to work on time and she is a good nanny does it matter?

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

I had a direct report that believed the start of the shift was walking in the door at that time. The problem was it was a massive office building and it then took him about 20 minutes to get to his desk and sitting down ready to work. It was a 20-person team where each position depended on the other person's input and everyone else was ready to work at the start of their shift.

In that case, your facilities management urgently needed to instal some lifts/escalators/moving floors (like at airports) in the building, or otherwise build more suitable entrances/car parks/drop-off points for reasonable employee workspace access. I used to live 6 miles away from my workplace over a county border and into the edge of a city and it took me 15 minutes to drive there, door to door and sit at my desk - how can it take somebody five more minutes than that to get from one part of a building to another? And if it genuinely does, I would say that any half-decent employer would take these exceptional circumstances into account and build in extra paid time to get there. What did he do if he wanted to have an actual break during his lunch time – if he got a full hour, two thirds of it would be wasted on travelling to and from his desk, and if he only got half an hour, he might as well not have had any time at all.

MidsummerMimi

Thanks for explaining all of that. In that case, you clearly do far more than pay them for the extra time already, so I’d say you are fully justified. Bit of a massive drip-feed, though….

Wow.. I cant believe you're asking this question. Its a total piss take and speaks volumes for you as a person in my opinion

I completely agree with you.
Wait: you are referring to the employer expecting their staff to work unpaid for hours every week, aren’t you….?

I wonder how many of those insisting that it’s simply the ‘decent’ and ‘proper’ thing to do to come in early and start the beginning of your working day unpaid are also the sort who are very British about other things as well – apologising when somebody stands on your foot or feeling eternally mortified if anybody hears you do the tiniest little fart out in public. (I’m British too, before anybody says anything).

I’m just trying to imagine your average German employee accept without complaint or utter bewilderment that their contracted, paid start time is 8am, which means that they must be clocked in, all set and ready to go by 7:45. No personal choice in it or flexitime involved: simply that it’s the ‘requirement of your job contract’ to work the first X minutes every day for free. Never mind, as a PP said “If you’re bang on time, that means you’re late”! Speaking stereotypically on a national scale, I think I know which of us has by far the healthier and more sensible idea – and as a nation, they’re not especially known for their lack of drive or efficiency, are they….?

I used to work in a huge building with incredibly long corridors. I worked out that it took me 17 minutes from entering the building to bring at my desk. Whereas if my office has been on the outside of the building it would not. 2 x 17 mins a day is a lot of extra time to be spent getting to work!

I have never had a job where start and finish time didn't have a window of a few hours so say 7 until 10 to start and 4 until 7 to finish apart from those where you clock in. It seems very old fashioned to have fixed times apart from obviously services

If you are on minimum wage you should go through the door at start time, many companies have had to pay back wages because of illegal practices of paying under minimum wage because of people having to arrive at work early

Technically its not wrong when you put the pc on its in company time when you read work E mails its company time, contractually you do a 40 hour week, so 9-6 is 40 hours with hour for lunch but every company takes the pee as they expect you to be ready to work at 9.00 so most people arrive 10-15 minutes early so to get ready. its the same in the afternoons leave off at 6.00 but a lot of people again leave at 6.20 ish after closing down etc, when you add all this time up its quite a lot that you don't get paid for its around 1 hour a week say well that's about an extra week a year you give to your employer for nothing.at my last place any one who walked in at 5 to nine or left at 6.05 had the raised eyebrow stuff but then the staff knew how to get the time back so sick days longer lunch breaks etc, it was like a game really.

I get the ready to start at 9 thing but I’ve worked places they expect you to be in at quarter to 9 to get ready. You get paid from 9 but are marked as late if you turn up at 10 to 9. I didn’t agree with that.

Hmm. I work in HR as a Senior Manager and I've just had words with a department manager who had casually mentioned to her team that they need to be in 15 mins before their start time. No they don't.

We are all salaried. If I'm due to start at 9, I consider myself on time if I'm there anything between 8.40 and 9.15. I will still do my work. My boss doesn't care and appreciates that in return for his flexibility, I will sometimes pick things up on my days off or annual leave (he will ask and be quite happy to accept 'no, I'm busy').
Incidentally, one of the martyrs who liked to make a big show of arriving 20 mins early (but still not being productive until 9.01) mentioned in their exit interview that we should install fingerprint scanners for clocking in. I mentioned this to my director and he laughed and said it was draconian and ridiculous.

Ps @MidsummerMimi can I come and work for you?

@MyPatronusIsACat Maybe I should clarify I’m a nurse for NHS and I work for the Covid community testing. We also have a drive through facility to which goes like a fair. If people turn up early for their test then we just do it. And we do it because we are professional. It’s just going on 8.30 now and I’ve already swabbed someone who turned up at 8.10 for their 8.40 appointment. We don’t work for greedy employers we just have a great professional team.

I'm a Teaching Partner in a Primary School & although contracted, I'm technically hourly paid, so claim for authorised overtime etc.

However, I am expected to start work way before my official time & stay later, not always get my unpaid breaks or full lunch hour, etc...every single day. It adds up to a huge amount over the course of the year but there's not a lot I can do about it - it makes life particularly difficult if I'm not in early in the mornings, at least 30-45mins before the kids arrive & the time I officially get paid from.

And before people jump on the 'but look at all the holidays you get' bandwagon, my 'meagre for what I do' annual salary is simply divided by 12 & paid monthly, regardless of holidays/term time.

All that said, of course it's my choice to do the job. 🤷‍♀️

@pangolina

Hmm. I work in HR as a Senior Manager and I've just had words with a department manager who had casually mentioned to her team that they need to be in 15 mins before their start time. No they don't.

We are all salaried. If I'm due to start at 9, I consider myself on time if I'm there anything between 8.40 and 9.15. I will still do my work. My boss doesn't care and appreciates that in return for his flexibility, I will sometimes pick things up on my days off or annual leave (he will ask and be quite happy to accept 'no, I'm busy').
Incidentally, one of the martyrs who liked to make a big show of arriving 20 mins early (but still not being productive until 9.01) mentioned in their exit interview that we should install fingerprint scanners for clocking in. I mentioned this to my director and he laughed and said it was draconian and ridiculous.

Ps @MidsummerMimi can I come and work for you?

Which is absolutely as it should be - a bit of give and take, which makes me a healthy working environment. What’s not fine is as I had - a member of staff who didn’t even look at his computer until 9.20 at the earliest every day after his coffee and various chats and was out the door bang on 5. Getting his coat on washing his mug seemed take far less time than taking his coat off and filling his mug, funnily enough.

• makes for

I think it's wrong. You need to be in at 8.55

Our company policy is that your start time means that you're at your desk, logged in & ready to go.

It's in our contracts.

Obviously you need to arrive before 9am. I arrive at 8.59 and 50 secs. Finger on power button while shrugging out of my coat at 9am precisely. 🙂

No, if they're paying you from 9, that includes everything job related IMO such as booting up a machine. But excludes non job related stuff like hanging your coat up. Jobs with such definitive hours baffle me, presenteeism over productivity.

depends on job, some go by time you clock in (and provided you can start working as soon as you walk in) and others require you to have arrived earlier because you need to be at your work station and logged in . It should be in your contract, what is expected of you in this regard.

Depends on the office. I know my colleague rushed out at 5 sharp. To be fair creches are set times. But did feel eyes on us if we went at 5!! But my timesheet only pays me til 5

@Chloemol

No it’s not big you start work at 9am you are at your desk it whatever 5 minutes before.

How would it work if shops open at 9am and no one is there to serve?

If a shop opens at nine then a member of staff needs to be paid to arrive before nine to open up if it's not just a ten second task of lifting the shutters.

Anyone on NMW should report any workplace that expects them to be there for any unpaid time

@notacooldad

What jobs have a clocking in and out system. I dont mean on a computer. I have only ever worked for local and county authorities and have never done this. I've seen it on old films and didnt think they existed any more.

A family member has a public sector office job and they have a clocking in clock. They're on flexitime So there's no "late" but it keeps tally of their times for them.

I needed time to take my coat off, get my desk/filing cabinet keys out of the safe, get my current papers file out of the cabinet, log on, make a coffee. I hated it when someone jumped on me with a work related question while I was still taking my coat off but it happened a lot. Ah sweet retirement.j

I agree that starting at 9 means ready to work at 9.