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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I should not have to kiss a man by the third date?

434 replies

littleloopylou · 05/09/2021 23:25

Really, I want to know. Is this unreasonable?

OP posts:
Hekatestorch · 06/09/2021 13:09

@littleloopylou

No, I don't think he owed me anything. I am angry that he would want to kiss me when he's clearly not that into me personally. I also didn't appreciate his follow up message to me about how it would be nicer to be cuddled up in bed after I didn't want to kiss him. I accepted his rejection. He could have left well enough alone.
Why do you think he wasn't that into you personally?

It appears that you feel a certain way about physical affection and intimacy, which is absolutely valid.

However, you also think that if someone doesn't feel like you do, they have some how failed 'the test'. I suspect you feel, your preferences are the superior preferences and people who want different are clearly just after sex.

People are just different. Your way, suits you. Its not for everyone else.

Flowers500 · 06/09/2021 13:10

[quote CaptSkippy]**@DrSbaitso* & @JustLyra*

I beg to differ. If you only want to see someone for a "date" if they're willing to get physical you need to be up front about it. That whole if OP is "ready to date" because she did not want to kiss speaks volumes in passive aggressive behavior.

OP has met this man at this point only three times. That's not a lot and he now only wants to see her if she is willing to kiss and calls that "ready to date"? Yeah, that is definitely shitty. He should have been clear in his OLD bio if that is what he was looking for.[/quote]
It’s kind of bloody implied when you’re on OLD and the vast majority of the population date this way… it’s exactly why you would specify looking for friends/companionship and maybe more if that’s what you are looking for.

It’s like going to a standard high street Mexican restaurant and getting upset when the menu is tacos, when what you wanted is some specific niche Mexican food.

littleloopylou · 06/09/2021 13:10

I get it, I'm taking something personally that isn't personal. But that goes to the basic issue - if I'm not prepared to be more physical and open with men when dating

OP posts:
BraveGoldie · 06/09/2021 13:10

OP,

Don't write off the possibility of finding the right person - OLD is a filtering system- the key is to be clear about your criteria so the right people make it through your filter. There are probably men who feel the same way you do, and certainly men who would respect what you want in this area.

I think it will help you if you articulate what you are looking for/ what people should expect - on your profile, then in more detail when you talk to an individual.

It took you a long time to articulate that in this thread, so I would work on getting better at that. For example, I would avoid using labels and requiring people to google, as there are probably multiple definitions for things and much better that you articulate what is real for you. Piecing together from your posts, this might mean you saying something like:

"I am only comfortable with a friends-first approach to finding a partner. That means for OLD, I will need significant time before I will consider anything physical, as I need to know a potential partner well and really be assured we like each other, before my 'physical attraction' instincts switch on. So please expect things to move slowly at the start. Pressure of any sort will have the opposite effect. When I do connect romantically, I enjoy a full and satisfying physical life with my partner."

Good luck!

littleloopylou · 06/09/2021 13:11

Oops. Unfinished message - but will have to leave it that way for the moment as I'm now doing something

OP posts:
GoodGrief100 · 06/09/2021 13:12

[quote littleloopylou]@GoodGrief100 i didn't insist on giving him an explanation. Calm down.[/quote]
I didn't say you insisted, did I? I said you thought he owed you the time of day to hear your explanation. He does not owe you anything. If anyone needs to calm the catastrophizing here, it's you.

justasking111 · 06/09/2021 13:14

Well he wants more than you so you're incompatible no Biggie both move on

ManifestDestinee · 06/09/2021 13:15

@littleloopylou

I get it, I'm taking something personally that isn't personal. But that goes to the basic issue - if I'm not prepared to be more physical and open with men when dating
Ok so you've half got there now.

The basic issue: you are not prepared to be more physical and open...thats perfectly fine. It just means that the pool of men open to you will be very reduced. Same as if you only wanted, say, catholic men over 6 ft. Or vegan men who can juggle.
IT doesn't matter what your preference are, they are valid. You just then can't get mad at everyone else for not sharing them. Do you understand?

DrSbaitso · 06/09/2021 13:17

That whole if OP is "ready to date" because she did not want to kiss speaks volumes in passive aggressive behavior.

I don't think she's not ready to date because she didn't want to kiss. I think she's not ready to date because of what she's been saying about feeling scared, the aftermath of her bad marriage, her confusion over something that isn't confusing, and the level of angst in her response to this.

littleloopylou · 06/09/2021 13:18

@ManifestDestinee perhaps I wasn't clear enough about the fact that I do understand that people have different feelings about this. But it makes me feel utterly hopeless because it's not something I feel that i can help, and i already feel completely unattractive as a dating prospect.

OP posts:
CaptSkippy · 06/09/2021 13:19

@Hekatestorch That's ridiculous. Not wanting to kiss by the third date is not ready to date? So unless you're willing to move at that speed you should not be dating at all? Waiting untill you know someone longer before you lock lips is not an option? Who the hell decided that?

That's pretty controlling, imo.

BelleOfTheProvince · 06/09/2021 13:20

I think people are confused about you being asexual because of this post:

realised i meant demisexual - but sapiosexual isn't far off either!
Those people who don't subscribe to gender ideology would have gone straight to Wikipedia, where they would have read that a demisexual is a form of and can be chopped and changed with asexuality.

Probably best to avoid such labels if it's not something you fully understand.

ManifestDestinee · 06/09/2021 13:21

Well I'm afraid you have to deal with those feelings. Work on yourself, don't get angry at others because of it.
You make your choices, you control your life. It isn't this man or any other mans fault that you feel the way you do. Your choice is to make peace with it or change it.

DrSbaitso · 06/09/2021 13:21

[quote littleloopylou]@ManifestDestinee perhaps I wasn't clear enough about the fact that I do understand that people have different feelings about this. But it makes me feel utterly hopeless because it's not something I feel that i can help, and i already feel completely unattractive as a dating prospect.[/quote]
And this is why I think you need to take more time out before you date again.

There are all sorts of reasons why someone won't feel compatible with you. The time you need might be one for you, for someone else it could be their education, weight, accent, taste in TV programmes or whatever. By all accounts OLD is brutal, so if you're already very fragile and will feel hopeless every time something doesn't progress, then maybe it's just not the right time for you.

CaptSkippy · 06/09/2021 13:23

@Flowers500 I have considered OLD trash for a long time and this rush to start making out before you know each other better is exactly the kind of entitled attitude that puts a lot of people off.

Then you get stuff like this:
ruinmyweek.com/relationships/tiktok-woman-tinder-date-sex/

Hekatestorch · 06/09/2021 13:26

[quote CaptSkippy]@Hekatestorch That's ridiculous. Not wanting to kiss by the third date is not ready to date? So unless you're willing to move at that speed you should not be dating at all? Waiting untill you know someone longer before you lock lips is not an option? Who the hell decided that?

That's pretty controlling, imo.[/quote]
Give over.

Who said not wanting to kiss on the third date is not ready to date. Or that Op shouldn't date at all?

They had 3 dates, op has posted quite a bit. It's fairly obvious she isn't entirely ready for dating. Things like assuming he didn't like her 'personally', which is an assumption she has made because he feels differently to here.

If people can see that from some posts, I am sure the person who spent 3 dates with her also picked up on it and the lack of kiss confirmed it.

What's controlling is deciding that someone has to disclose they are just after sex, because they would like a start to some physical interaction.

Not wanting to kiss on the 3rd date is fine. Wanting to kiss on the 3rd date is fine.

Why on earth would anyone need to disclose 'i am looking for someone to peck on the lips by date 3'

littleloopylou · 06/09/2021 13:26

@BelleOfTheProvince I think I do understand it. However, others reading a Wikipedia article apparently don't, so fair enough.

OP posts:
JustLyra · 06/09/2021 13:28

[quote CaptSkippy]**@DrSbaitso* & @JustLyra*

I beg to differ. If you only want to see someone for a "date" if they're willing to get physical you need to be up front about it. That whole if OP is "ready to date" because she did not want to kiss speaks volumes in passive aggressive behavior.

OP has met this man at this point only three times. That's not a lot and he now only wants to see her if she is willing to kiss and calls that "ready to date"? Yeah, that is definitely shitty. He should have been clear in his OLD bio if that is what he was looking for.[/quote]
He wasn’t only willing to date the OP if she was willing to get physical - if that was the case the situation would have come up on date one.

He felt like their time together had reached a dating point which included kissing, rather than a platonic friendship. The OP didn’t.

Deciding that wasn’t for him doesn’t make him shitty t anything else. It means the OP isn’t for him.

It was also the OP who blocked him, not the other way round. He simply said they weren’t compatible - which is completely accurate.

Flowers500 · 06/09/2021 13:28

[quote CaptSkippy]@Flowers500 I have considered OLD trash for a long time and this rush to start making out before you know each other better is exactly the kind of entitled attitude that puts a lot of people off.

Then you get stuff like this:
ruinmyweek.com/relationships/tiktok-woman-tinder-date-sex/[/quote]
Sorry I don’t understand what point you are trying to make? We are talking about very different situations here:

(A) dating progresses naturally (at an already slow pace), wants different things so respectfully ends

Vs

(B) borderline attempted rape as man tries to trick woman he doesn’t know into sex

Please could you outline what point I am meant to take from this and how they are comparable?

lottiegarbanzo · 06/09/2021 13:29

OLD is a numbers game, in two senses, I think (wisdom from one who's never used it myself but has seen friends do so).

Firstly, you need to be as clear, honest and specific as possible in your bio. That's to screen out idiots and unsuitables. Of course present yourself in a positive light but don't mislead people. That just wastes their time and yours. That includes lying / misleading by omission. If there are particular things about you and want you want, that will reduce the size of the group of people who might find you suitable, you need to tell people.

That's to narrow the range of people contacting you, to the most potentially suitable sub-set.

Secondly, chat to / go on as many dates with different people as you feel you can possibly enjoy / bear.

That's to maximise the number of potentially suitable people that you meet. Most of them will not be right for you and in many cases you'll be able to screen out the 'definite noes' fast, continuing only with the yeses and maybes. It might be 1:10 who you think has real potential and you'd like to get to know better but it might be 1:50. To meet that one, who could be the first, the 50th or any one in between, you need to meet a lot of people.

The golden rule has to be, do not waste people's time. Theirs, or your own. Meeting up with people who could and should have been screened out at an earlier stage - bio or initial chat - is a waste of both your time.

So you need to be clear and honest about your general intentions.

RichardDrankMyCoke · 06/09/2021 13:32

I undertand how you're feeling, I think. For a long time, I was convinced relationships weren’t for me because I wasn’t willing to be physical/sexual before I was ready and the guys I was meeting were always ready long before I was. I wasn’t adverse to casual touching or a kiss goodnight, I just didn't want the first kiss to escalate to full-on body press with heavy breathing and massive amounts of tongue. And when I said wait, I like you but this is just too much too soon and my "date" said OK, understood, and we'll take it slower, I didn't want him to try the same routine again five minutes later. (And I don't think this is an exclusively male/female thing, but that's kind of irrelevant if you're a woman wanting to be in a relationship with a man.)

I find that OLD and other forms of organised "dating" are bad for people who are slow to warm up. I think these methods mostly attract people who want to be "in a relationship" fast, without a lot of preliminaries. They're meeting you thinking "will we hook up, yes or no?" or "is this my next partner?" not meeting you as a person and deciding if they want a relationship with you and what type. Many are meeting several "options" and out of the individuals they feel compatibility and attraction with, they're going to focus on those who seem enthusiastic about moving full steam ahead. And that may mean cutting out someone they do like and connect with to spend time with more of a "sure thing".

I don't know the solution, but I think you were on the right track with getting to know people without this huge focus on "is this my next Mx. Right?" Can you take the time you've allocated for dating and at least for a little while focus more on group activities that interest you, maybe something via meetup.com or a local group? Within the sphere of OLD, are there sites/groups that are more flexible, might include those who aren't only looking for insta-love? Can you put something in your profile about wanting to take things slowly, and look for profiles that say something similar? Maybe spend more time talking before you meet so the ones who genuinely can't handle waiting will know to rule you out, and you can rule out the eager beavers and the guys who get sexual way too fast for you (even over the phone/online)? It's not perfect, just some basic ideas.

He actually texted me this AFTER saying that he doesn't want to see me at this time: "How much nicer would it have been if we cuddled up in bed together?” This particular comment comes across as really self-centred to me. It would have been nicer for HIM, but obviously unworkable for you. He’s not taking your feelings or needs into consideration AT ALL, even now when you’ve thoroughly explained them. You've both decided not to pursue anything, but he still has to be universally "right" and make you "wrong". And he has to tell you that your way of dating is not "dating", but you'll come around "when you're ready to date". This fellow is all me, me, me - no compromise, no empathy, no idea that people legitimately exist and thrive while being very different from him. I’d try not to take this one personally, just use the experience to get better at spotting dickheads warning signs.

BelleOfTheProvince · 06/09/2021 13:34

Well, as you are in your 30s I am sure you know that the majority of people your age and older don't buy into gender identity so you using that label doesn't clarify anything. It just tells people you adhere to a religious belief, but expecting others to know it inside out would be like a Catholic insisting on atheists understanding the finer points of the religion.

If you think Wikipedia's definition of demisexual is wrong, you'll be pleased to know that you can edit the pages.

lottiegarbanzo · 06/09/2021 13:38

Also, I'd just like to reflect back to you that your idea that him wanting to kiss you indicated that he didn't like you personally (but what, only wanted you for sex?), rather than being a natural expression of liking you personally and wanting to develop things further, suggests that in some way, you see sex as bad and dirty.

I can't see any other way to make sense of your 'it means he doesn't like me personally' statement.

Sure, you didn't want to kiss him yet, you didn't, all fine. But to infer from his attempt that he disliked you, is weird.

Kissing does not indicate personal dislike.

CallMeNutribullet · 06/09/2021 13:41

Op it was 3 dates and it didn't work out. Neither of you are being unreasonable, you just want different things.

My honest advice would be to grow a thicker skin if you insist on proceeding with OLD. I've had men send me sexually explicit messages after one date (which I thought had gone well too). Make it clear what you're looking for and learn to be ok with the fact that a large number of men won't be up for that, but the right one will.

tttigress · 06/09/2021 13:45

Interesting topic, I do take you point, but I would have thought after 3 dates you would know if there was chemistry there.

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