To say being late all the time isn't a trait you are just rude

[username4s]

AIBU to thinks it's not funny. it's plain rude and shows a lack of respect for the other person?

I often see/hear about people who are always late and it's as if it's just a funny trait of theirs. I don't agree it's shows a lack of care for other peoples time. Are these same people always late for work/school runs/other important commitments or do they suddenly manage to organise themselves and be on time.

My mother was always late. We would all (5 kids and dad) be in the car going on holiday and mum would be faffing about in the house "looking for something". We were the last on ferries, called out for flights. Syill she would "take her time at the last minute". The rest of us all have a "fear" of being late although I am the only one who has her watch/clock in the car set 15 minutes fast so I won't be late unless there is a very good reason out with my control.

Being persistently late is worse than rude. It shows a, flaw in character which is close to sociopathic.

@Mirw

My mother was always late. We would all (5 kids and dad) be in the car going on holiday and mum would be faffing about in the house "looking for something". We were the last on ferries, called out for flights. Syill she would "take her time at the last minute". The rest of us all have a "fear" of being late although I am the only one who has her watch/clock in the car set 15 minutes fast so I won't be late unless there is a very good reason out with my control.

Being persistently late is worse than rude. It shows a, flaw in character which is close to sociopathic.

That sounds super-stressful but it reminds me of a conversation I was having with a friend the other day about holidays. Everyone "ready and waiting" but in fact have no sun hat, water bottle, picnic, swimming stuff and all that organisation falls on the mum again, who is running round the house trying to remember if there's anything else she should have remembered on behalf of her impatient family. There can be different perspectives on the same event.

Broadly speaking, apparently people relate to time in one of two ways.

Some people relate to via numbers. They are quantitative.

Some people relate to it via phenomena. They are qualitative.

So the first group find it easy to “be on time”. They can stick to schedules, keep appointments, make tasks fit into the shop one allotted. They are punctual and precise. They are happy when things are running on time and incredibly frustrated when things are out of sync with their schedule.

The second group connect to time not through to numbers but via people, objects and places. It’s all about how things relate to one another. They see will measure success with time as being able to devote the time that is needed to something or someone they value. So a task will be given the time that is necessary to achieve a certain change, a desired effect or level of quality. They are happy when they feel able to maintain connection with themselves and others, they feel unrushed. They are frustrated when they are forced to move on to another before it’s where it needs to be.

In reality, most people are a blend of both to varying degrees. But it is very, very difficult for people who have relatively different senses of time to get along. The lifestyles are very different.

One group sees times being comprised of small units, the other as a flow.

@KhoshkaKatya it sounds much nicer to live your life the second way.
Unfortunately that seems to come at the expense of the people living the first way... or do late people also expect or want everyone else to be late too?

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

I do wonder about those people who say they ‘can’t help it’ - what about turning up on time to work, to GP or hospital appts., and what about when they have kids? Do they just let them endlessly turn up late to school? What about turning up on time for flights, obv. pre COVID?

Do they get the sack over and over for habitually turning up late, or do they somehow manage to organise themselves to be on time when it’s important? Just not when it’s ‘only’ a case of meeting friend A for a coffee.

You can't have read the thread or you wouldn't need to wonder.

I could say people who, on seeing a large thread and don't bother to read or skim it before engaging to avoid questions that have already been asked and answered many times or making the same points, are rude, inconsiderate, selfish and think they and their time are more important that contributors before them. There's no excuse and it's a choice.

I don't actually think those things about everyone who doesn't read a thread before engaging on it . I do wonder sometimes the reasoning behind not doing so though.

@GreyhoundG1rl how does OP, you, or anyone else distinguish between someone who chooses to be late on purpose, and someone who has an undiagnosed condition where their brain literally works against them every minute of the day to prevent plans from being adhered to? Like ADD. Literally only 3 people on the whole thread have said they know people who admit they are late on purpose and because they don't care (plus a handful of other from other countries with a less linear view of timekeeping!).

Even if it's been diagnosed, your friend might not be comfortable sharing that with you they have ADD (and reading the judgemental unpleasantness on this thread, even you might have enough empathy to understand why someone might prefer not to mention it).

Generally, people do know who their friends are who err late. They usually also know that they TRY really hard not to be, but struggle in a way that others don't. Some people accept this is part of the mental makeup of someone they want as a friend.

Others can't cope with it themselves (due to their own mental makeup, howabout that ), and they choose to imply that the friend is doing it to them because they are rude, lazy, selfish etc. This makes it easier to justify dropping someone different from their social circle. Fine. As I said before, if it is that important to you that I am on time to push kids on swings in the playground, we're better off going our separate ways.

Incidentally ADD people do have other redeeming factors. It often comes with a side helping of hyperfocus (handy for flights and job interviews, that one!), bold ideas, strength under pressure, and enormous persistence - even when you're in the minority. So if you want someone to go on a mad adventure, visit an unusual foreign country, turn up at 3am when you've had a disaster, whip round to find 10 people to help you move house when your movers cancel on you the day before, or campaign to change something super important to your local area or interest group, your perpetually late friend might actually turn out to be just the one you need to help!

If you don't recognise any of those traits in your friendship group, perhaps you might consider that it's because you've already filtered all of them away?

I have found amongst those I know, that those who are always late, consider those who are never late, as somehow stuffy and uptight. It’s never said, but somehow implied.

I’m never late, even though I gave 3 children including a baby. Friends with no or fewer children are always late, but somehow my being able to be organised is the flaw…🤷‍♀️

I know this thread is about lateness and there have been some really helpful posts about the difficulty that ND people have being on time. However, there seems to be a theme that if you are ND, you are most likely going to be late.

I am ND myself but I am a very on time person. For me, when someone is late, I start to panic.

Have I found the right place? Is it the right day? Did we agree to meet at all or am I just imagining that we did? Am I keeping them waiting because I have the wrong spot? Was I supposed to meet them yesterday? Did I do something wrong?

A knot forms in my stomach and I pace up and down obsessively checking my phone in case I have missed something. I start finding it difficult to breathe.

In fact, the feeling matches those of the people who struggle with getting out the door on time.

So what do I do? How can we, if we're friends, accommodate each other's neurodiversity?

@Snog Your second sentence shows just how difficult it is for people from one group Tia we the perspective of the other.

Equally you could say that people who live the first way do so at the expense of people who live the second way.

The partner, parent or friend who always sticks to the time allocated and rarely really notices the emotional state of their partner, child or friend for example. Or if they do notice, they don’t step outside their schedule to spend the necessary time.

It’s as frustrating to feel short changed, ignored or unseen over time because a schedule is too rigid as it is to feel like you are hanging around waiting or that your time isn’t as important as the latecomer’s.

In essence, both “wronged” parties feel like they aren’t important to the other, and if only the other could see just how much better their way is and just change to be like that.

[quote Snog]@KhoshkaKatya it sounds much nicer to live your life the second way.
Unfortunately that seems to come at the expense of the people living the first way... or do late people also expect or want everyone else to be late too?[/quote]
Well this is what I have been saying. People who are often late to expect/tolerate other people being late too and don't see it as insulting or rude. Or at least the decent ones do. It is a different way, but it isn't necessarily a worse way. Because being very schedule driven does mean you often have to say no, leave abruptly when someone might really need you to wait, etc. And if everyone understands this and their expectations match, it can be quite a happy dynamic, despite involving quite regular waiting around. It's when expectations don't match that you get friction. Actually you also get a lot of waiting around with the schedule based plan because you have to build in contingency so it's just you're waiting around because you're early rather than because the other person is late.

@ISaySteadyOn

I know this thread is about lateness and there have been some really helpful posts about the difficulty that ND people have being on time. However, there seems to be a theme that if you are ND, you are most likely going to be late.

I am ND myself but I am a very on time person. For me, when someone is late, I start to panic.

Have I found the right place? Is it the right day? Did we agree to meet at all or am I just imagining that we did? Am I keeping them waiting because I have the wrong spot? Was I supposed to meet them yesterday? Did I do something wrong?

A knot forms in my stomach and I pace up and down obsessively checking my phone in case I have missed something. I start finding it difficult to breathe.

In fact, the feeling matches those of the people who struggle with getting out the door on time.

So what do I do? How can we, if we're friends, accommodate each other's neurodiversity?

This is really relatable! I think it's all about communication isn't it? Manage expectations, let people know what works and what doesn't in terms of meeting times and places - talk through the risk that you might be late and what the back up plan would be, weigh up whether it's actually work it. Put in place measures to minimise the risk you'll be late and hopefully reach some kind of common ground.

@MeandT and @KhoshkaKatya thank you both, you have definitely changed my perspective on this

@Luckystar1

I have found amongst those I know, that those who are always late, consider those who are never late, as somehow stuffy and uptight. It’s never said, but somehow implied.

I’m never late, even though I gave 3 children including a baby. Friends with no or fewer children are always late, but somehow my being able to be organised is the flaw…🤷‍♀️

I think that's fair - it does come across that way in some posts, including my own probably. But it's not being organised or on time that's rigid. It's the attitude that might be - there are examples on the thread of people just absolutely refusing to see that there might be another way of looking at the issue, and actually there are downsides as well as upsides to an unforgiving attitude to timekeeping.

That is absolutely what op meant when she started the thread.

I actually double checked the OP before I posted my comment.

The thread starts with

AIBU To say being late all the time isn't a trait you are just rude
AIBU to thinks it's not funny. it's plain rude and shows a lack of respect for the other person?

Seriously, give it a rest.

@ISaySteadyOn - If you go to this post of mine, it might help you find workarounds

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4341485-to-say-being-late-all-the-time-isn-t-a-trait-you-are-just-rude?msgid=110573986

Strange how you can be sacked for lateness, almost like people who pay for your time think being late is a problem.

I am actually disabled due to ADHD, and struggling with timekeeping is a part of my disability.

How dare you read this thread, take part in it so often and learn nothing. I'd quote you directly but I'm about to report your comment and hope it is deleted shortly due to discrimination.

I couldn’t leave earlier because the bus went at 750 but I couldn’t leave two under 4 alone in the house while he showered.

Hang on. What? How do you shower when one of you is away?

Presumably other people who are perpetually late like me have chosen jobs that suit their personality, like most people do.

No, some people don't have that level of choice in what they do to earn money!

@DottyHarmer

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

You were going to report them for what?

Your post is disgracefully ableist. Asking someone with a cognitive impairment to 'just be more organised' is exactly like asking someone in a wheelchair to 'just walk up these steps'. Your implication that the neurological disability is somehow less valid is exactly the problem here. Your attitude that people can just try harder not to be late is downplaying a recognised disability.

Do you think people with these issues just love being frazzled and upset all the time? Do you think rushing is fun? Yes, we do try to put all sorts of mitigations in place. I have a whiteboard and multiple places to write notes and lists for myself. I try to get things ready the night before. I wake up ridiculously early to make sure I've got time. But often all of this still isn't enough, because I'm just about to leave the flat and I can't remember where I just put my keys down, or I realised I left something crucial off the to-do list, like to look up how to get where I'm going. You don't seem to understand that you can try 10 times harder than an average person to do just about anything in life and still sometimes fail at it.

@Bollindger

Strange how you can be sacked for lateness, almost like people who pay for your time think being late is a problem.

So what's the solution, Bollindger? Do you think those of us with autism and ADHD should just settle for a life on benefits? Is that better? You think people who are very often extremely intelligent with lots to offer should just not be allowed to expect to ever have a job because we can't make it in for 9am every single day?

I've met a lot of people with your attitude in my life but I've never been given an acceptable solution by any of them.

@AntiSocialDistancer

I am actually disabled due to ADHD, and struggling with timekeeping is a part of my disability.

How dare you read this thread, take part in it so often and learn nothing. I'd quote you directly but I'm about to report your comment and hope it is deleted shortly due to discrimination.

It's truly amazing how someone can read about the painful struggles of people with a recognised disability and still go 'well you're just not trying hard enough'. It's truly baffling to me.

@ChristmasArmadillo

I have a friend like this. Consistently 30 minutes - 1.5 hours late to everything. She’s always vaguely shocked and alarmed when I show up at her house or an activity at the appointed time too which drives me bonkers. “Oh, you’re here/there already?!” Yes, yes I am. I said I would be!

I had a "friend" who was like this. After putting up with her lateness for longer than I should have I once arrived at her house just as she and her partner were going out. It was a pre-arranged visit - we'd only arranged it a couple of days beforehand - but she said she didn't think I would actually go! Wtf!!

The amount of people who think that "late" people shouldn't have jobs or friends is really disgusting. Again and again you're invited to understand the cognitive difficulty some people have around time keeping and personal organisation.

I'm beginning to think that the problem is not that people enjoy feeling better than others - they actively enjoy thinking that other people are worse than them.