To say being late all the time isn't a trait you are just rude

[username4s]

AIBU to thinks it's not funny. it's plain rude and shows a lack of respect for the other person?

I often see/hear about people who are always late and it's as if it's just a funny trait of theirs. I don't agree it's shows a lack of care for other peoples time. Are these same people always late for work/school runs/other important commitments or do they suddenly manage to organise themselves and be on time.

I just think there's a balance to be struck. Rarely are you fitting a social event into an otherwise clear day. You're normally trying to fit too much in. So if you're always going to leave yourself enough time to make sure you're not late or in a flap then realistically you probably have to say no to more stuff. But that can come across as a bit inflexible and rude in itself "yes I can fit you in in December 2023". Normally it's a binary choice - I'm in your town and have a couple of hours before my train. Can you make it. for dinner? And the truth is I have work and child commitments but with a fair wind I will make it for 7:30 as long as the bus doesn't take ages to come or get stuck in traffic. And I could say 8 to be on the safer side but then we definitely miss 30 mins of our 2 hour window. And maybe I'm there by 7:45 but at least I made the effort to come and we have a nice time. Some of my friends who are never late would also never say yes to this kind of window, so can go months and months without seeing our friend who lives abroad but is here for work sometimes and I know he's sad not to feel like a priority but life is busy and full of things we don't necessarily want to prioritise but nevertheless call on our time.

And yes if you know your friends are always on time it's rude to be always late and I'd always make a special effort with people I know are never late. But the truth is the attitude in the op and throughout the thread puts a lot of stress on people and is unnecessary imo. The more flexible catch ups with friends who understand how it is and know they are afforded a bit of leeway too (as it's just as likely to be my friend whose meeting overruns or whatever) are more enjoyable and, tbh, more likely to happen regularly because you don't need a full clear day or morning to fit them in. So I am not saying it's never rude or entitled or whatever, just that people have different attitudes to whether waiting around is such a terrible thing and as much as those who are always on time people think their way is the only way and everyone else is really selfish, their judgment does turn what's supposed to be a fun get together into a source of stress. A more flexible approach might work better, and by that I don't mean just sucking up your friend never being on time and you always being the one waiting.

"People with a condition"...you mean Invisible Disabilities? Because that's what ADHD/ASD/Dyslexia/Executive Functioning Disorders etc are. Would you hold someone in a wheelchair to the same expectations? I'm thinking you would probably bend over backwards to be seen as lenient and empathetic if the Disability was visible and easier for you to comprehend.

And yy to ibs. I'm much less likely to be late if it's just me or even just me and the kids than if I'm waiting for dh to go on another loo visit and am eating into my contingency working out whether he is well enough to come or if I should go on without him (bit mean just to leave someone to emerge from a stomach upset to find you've left without saying goodbye).

@Hertsgirl10

It’s weird that people think others are late and that it’s all about them 😂 how does it mean FU to the person if someone’s late? Sounds like people love taking everything personally and should probably get a therapist.

I have very little free time to myself so what I have is precious.

Why should I have to not care about it being wasted by hanging around for an hour waiting for someone else?

This thread has been a real eye opener. In future I’ll wait no more than 10 minutes

Haven’t rtfs but I’m with you op. DH is always late. Always.

I’m on a trial with work currently to change my hours (845 start instead of 9 so I can leave early and get to the gym) DH knows this. And yet here we are. Sat in the car in the traffic. We have a 20 minute drive left then have to get both kids to nursery and it’s raining like it’s never rained before (so traffic is bad). I was up at 6. DH 630. He only went in the shower at 750.

So because of him. I’m going to be late. And I hate it.

I couldn’t leave earlier because the bus went at 750 but I couldn’t leave two under 4 alone in the house while he showered.

Do those who say their lateness is neurological have a similarly-affected partner? Does the partner help them or are they driven into a ball of anxiety by it?

Should you “call someone out” (in aggressive MN parlance) if someone is late? Dh and bil were taking fil, with dementia, out for tea from his home. Dh collected fil and wheeled him to the pub for 6pm, at which point bil phoned and said he was just leaving, and arrived at 7. Dh was so cross and bil got mad and said Dh was uptight. But fil was confused, had got overly hungry and the outing was spoiled. But bil was “That’s just me!” and that he and sil are always running late, tant pis.

Do those who say their lateness is neurological have a similarly-affected partner?

Opposites attract. And in many ways helps highlight how neurologically difficult I find the tasks. I don't care less than my partner but he is focused, organised and single minded about getting out the door and I can't be the same.

I think it depends on the situation. When my kids were young, i was always late. I had 1 + 2 kids. One of my kids was later diagnosed with ASD. People used to make comments about my lateness. it really hurt. My life was awful at that time. I had no family nearby and it all fell on me with 3 children with more complex needs. BUT I desperately needed people to be with and talk to.

Now my kids are older and we are not late unless my husband is with us. even for our own trips, he is the last in the car. Both of us, on our own, are on time. Throw the family in and the dynamics change. I have also chosen not to get worked up and fight over it. It isn't that I disrespect my friend's time, but I choose not to get so worked up that my family starts arguing. so in this rambling, it really depends on the situation who what where when and how. I do find it annoying when a family of 1 child is judging me. I could move mountains with 1 child.

I do wonder about those people who say they ‘can’t help it’ - what about turning up on time to work, to GP or hospital appts., and what about when they have kids? Do they just let them endlessly turn up late to school? What about turning up on time for flights, obv. pre COVID?

Do they get the sack over and over for habitually turning up late, or do they somehow manage to organise themselves to be on time when it’s important? Just not when it’s ‘only’ a case of meeting friend A for a coffee.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

I do wonder about those people who say they ‘can’t help it’ - what about turning up on time to work, to GP or hospital appts., and what about when they have kids? Do they just let them endlessly turn up late to school? What about turning up on time for flights, obv. pre COVID?

Do they get the sack over and over for habitually turning up late, or do they somehow manage to organise themselves to be on time when it’s important? Just not when it’s ‘only’ a case of meeting friend A for a coffee.

There are numerous stories in the thread about consequences of those with ADHD who are habitually late, many saying that they have missed important medical tests or paid for flights etc.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

I do wonder about those people who say they ‘can’t help it’ - what about turning up on time to work, to GP or hospital appts., and what about when they have kids? Do they just let them endlessly turn up late to school? What about turning up on time for flights, obv. pre COVID?

Do they get the sack over and over for habitually turning up late, or do they somehow manage to organise themselves to be on time when it’s important? Just not when it’s ‘only’ a case of meeting friend A for a coffee.

Yes I wonder how they got a job at all

In my former job being late to the interview would be a major strike against them from the star and if you were more than a few minutes late then the interview wouldn’t go ahead at all

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

I do wonder about those people who say they ‘can’t help it’ - what about turning up on time to work, to GP or hospital appts., and what about when they have kids? Do they just let them endlessly turn up late to school? What about turning up on time for flights, obv. pre COVID?

Do they get the sack over and over for habitually turning up late, or do they somehow manage to organise themselves to be on time when it’s important? Just not when it’s ‘only’ a case of meeting friend A for a coffee.

Presumably other people who are perpetually late like me have chosen jobs that suit their personality, like most people do. I wouldn't choose a job where I had to be somewhere by a specific time I couldn't manage, because I'd just be setting myself up for failure. I also wouldn't choose a job where I had to do a lot of public speaking, or making life or death split second decisions because I'm not naturally good at those things either.

For important one off things I tell myself an earlier time in my head and have to aim for a much earlier time, and it takes more time and mental effort to keep on track, so it's not practical for day to day things. The same way that I can psyche myself up for public speaking if I absolutely have to do it, but doing it every day would be very difficult.

I don't know why people can't accept that being disorganised or having bad timekeeping skills (which is usually why people are late) is a personality trait just like lots of other things that irritate others. It comes easier to some people than others.

I've said this before, I was always late for school because my brother was always very last minute about getting ready and he was dropped at his school on the way to mine.

It caused so much stress and my parents wouldn't let me take the bus. I missed all the information they give out on your first day at high school.

Until he passed his driving test, then he would be all ready to go to take me to school (the other side of town) and get back in time for VI form.

He's just a selfish git who didn't and still doesn't care.

Do you have children?!
Or are you one of those miraculous parents that always get things done perfectly on time?
I have 3 boys and getting them out the door is a nightmare! Little one always fills his nappy, middle one can't find a shoe and oldest is just sitting on his phone when he should be getting ready.
No amount of jollying on gets them out the door any faster. We are late for almost everything but we always have the intention of getting there on time. It just doesn't happen.
If we say, "we'll be there at 2" we actually mean "we won't be there before 2."
We absolutely don't do it on purpose and don't consider it a funny trait. It just happens that way.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

I do wonder about those people who say they ‘can’t help it’ - what about turning up on time to work, to GP or hospital appts., and what about when they have kids? Do they just let them endlessly turn up late to school? What about turning up on time for flights, obv. pre COVID?

Do they get the sack over and over for habitually turning up late, or do they somehow manage to organise themselves to be on time when it’s important? Just not when it’s ‘only’ a case of meeting friend A for a coffee.

Perhaps if you read the thread you wouldn't need to wonder.

I've been fired from jobs for being disorganised, been on a final warning for turning up late and have forgotten important medical appointments. Not missed a flight but only because I set off for the airport about 5 hours before the flight time, and even then I've sometimes been running for it if something went wrong with the train etc. I haven't had kids and one of the reasons I haven't is I'm not sure I'd be able to cope. I just don't have the same ability to 'muddle through' that many neurotypical people take for granted. A bad night's sleep reduces my cognitive ability to the point I can barely function.

Any more ableist suggestions to make?

But we are not talking about that issue.
We are talking about genuine, I can be on time, but I choose not to people.
There is a big difference.

@Elphame well luckily, not everyone is as ableist as you. Many people with neurological disabilities manage to find work that suits them, where they don't absolutely have to start at a certain time. If this weren't possible, I'm sure many of us would be on disability benefits. It's already the case that only 22% of autistic adults can hold down a full-time job, largely because of other people's ableism and rigid expectations.

I remember having a manager with your attitude when I was about 22 who made me feel like nothing, told me I'd never be able to cope in the working world and I'd end up on the dole. I'm now on a very good salary working in tech, got a distinction in the Master's I did in my mid twenties, have contributed to several published books and learned multiple foreign languages to a very high level.

It's amazing what you can achieve when people are supportive and flexible rather than ableist.

@MummyMayo1988

Do you have children?! Or are you one of those miraculous parents that always get things done perfectly on time? I have 3 boys and getting them out the door is a nightmare! Little one always fills his nappy, middle one can't find a shoe and oldest is just sitting on his phone when he should be getting ready. No amount of jollying on gets them out the door any faster. We are late for almost everything but we always have the intention of getting there on time. It just doesn't happen. If we say, "we'll be there at 2" we actually mean "we won't be there before 2." We absolutely don't do it on purpose and don't consider it a funny trait. It just happens that way.

In your situation I would remove eldest's phone until they are ready and standing by the door. With middle boy's missing shoe, I would start a cast iron rule that no shoes ever go beyond the hall, utility etc and invest in some decent shoe storage there.

@MummyMayo1988

Do you have children?! Or are you one of those miraculous parents that always get things done perfectly on time? I have 3 boys and getting them out the door is a nightmare! Little one always fills his nappy, middle one can't find a shoe and oldest is just sitting on his phone when he should be getting ready. No amount of jollying on gets them out the door any faster. We are late for almost everything but we always have the intention of getting there on time. It just doesn't happen. If we say, "we'll be there at 2" we actually mean "we won't be there before 2." We absolutely don't do it on purpose and don't consider it a funny trait. It just happens that way.

Yes.

I was always aiming at leaving half an hour earlier than I should. That gave me a time buffer for puking/pooing baby and getting the toddler ready as well.

The only time I was late for medical appointment was when I got stuck behind the tractor for most of my journey. I was late 15 minutes. They told mi off and I was lucky to be seen

@MummyMayo1988 I had 3 under 4 and it was a military operations to get out the door.
But I did and I was very rarely late because kids being late in to class is disruptive.
They miss out on playtime and information.

You need strategies to get out the door on time

But we are not talking about that issue.
We are talking about genuine, I can be on time, but I choose not to people.
There is a big difference.

No, that's not at all what the thread is about.

@Bollindger

But we are not talking about that issue. We are talking about genuine, I can be on time, but I choose not to people. There is a big difference.

This is infuriating. The thread is quite literally about assuming people who are always late can be on time but choose not to. Anyone saying that isn't the case is either shouted down (you could if you really wanted to) or told the thread isn't about them.

I find the black and white thinking on mumsnet hard to bear tbh. I'd much rather a flappy and disorganised late friend who can see shades of grey and doesn't hold everyone to the same rigid standards in everything. Luckily we are all different and value different things so generally speaking people find their tribe. It's a bit like dating. If a friend is incompatible in some way you probably have to decide whether it's something you can overlook because you value the whole package or go your separate ways - but hopefully just thinking you're incompatible rather than necessarily superior. Though there are obviously some examples of behaviour on here that is unacceptable.

As an aside, yes you can make it on time to an interview if you have ADHD (or dyspraxia which can present similarly) but it may stress you out for a week and you may be shaking with the sheer effort of having to organise yourself to that degree with no leeway at all. Do you genuinely want your friends to go through that every time they meet you, to prove they value your time enough?

@AntiSocialDistancer

*But we are not talking about that issue. We are talking about genuine, I can be on time, but I choose not to people. There is a big difference.*

No, that's not at all what the thread is about.

That is absolutely what op meant when she started the thread.

[quote Rozziie]@Elphame well luckily, not everyone is as ableist as you. Many people with neurological disabilities manage to find work that suits them, where they don't absolutely have to start at a certain time. If this weren't possible, I'm sure many of us would be on disability benefits. It's already the case that only 22% of autistic adults can hold down a full-time job, largely because of other people's ableism and rigid expectations.

I remember having a manager with your attitude when I was about 22 who made me feel like nothing, told me I'd never be able to cope in the working world and I'd end up on the dole. I'm now on a very good salary working in tech, got a distinction in the Master's I did in my mid twenties, have contributed to several published books and learned multiple foreign languages to a very high level.

It's amazing what you can achieve when people are supportive and flexible rather than ableist.[/quote]
When you’ve got a room of potential new clients all waiting on one person who is perpetually late then it is a major problem.

It will lose us the contract. It’s as simple as that. Time keeping is a vital skill in many workplaces.