To not want to be primary caregiver?

[ttcissoboring]

Not got kids yet but planning to. I don't know any woman that's not the primary caregiver IRL and it's starting to panic me. I don't want to be primary caregiver. Is this going to be enivitable?

Is it impossible to go back to work as soon as I am feeling physically able to and split the parenting at that point? A year off work seems the default but there is no way I want and could do that. Men go back after a week and there is no judgement as to 'how could he leave the child so young' woman does it and the judgement is like she has committed child abuse, I find it very sad and frustrating. And the judgement seems to come from other women as much as it does men.

Does anyone who has children consider themselves not the primary caregiver and completely equal with how they parent with their partner?

The idea of parenting doesn't appeal to me unless it's 50/50 ( of course I understand anything could happen tragically to DH where I'd have to be full caregiver and I'd have no choice)

Is primary caregiver inevitable because I'm a woman? And am I being somewhat naive to this experience?!

Please tell me your experiences of switching this narrative if you have kids, are a woman and not the default parent but share the duties equally from very early on.

@BigFatLiar

When it comes to emotional load however it's definitely me. He never even registers birthdays etc. If we attend a social event he doesn't remember the dates even when it's his side. He never organises holidays etc. So I'm aware the mental load is likely to be me but that's probably for the good because I like things doing a certain way!

Perhaps they're more important to you than to him.

I bet he's happy to go on the holidays that someone else has organised!!

And unfortunately for him, he doesn't get to decide that the emotional load in relation to children isn't important. Children need to attend medical appointments, get their hair cut, go to school, attend parties, do homework etc. You can't just opt out of those things

@SkinnyMirror

When it comes to emotional load however it's definitely me. He never even registers birthdays etc. If we attend a social event he doesn't remember the dates even when it's his side. He never organises holidays etc.

I bet he managed to do this when he was single and I bet that he is able to remember dates and organise things for work.

It's great that you are planning ahead but I would seriously address this issue as it has the potential to breed resentment. It doesn't feel too bad when there aren't any kids involved but children do bring a whole load of things that need organising and things that someone needs to remember and it is pretty shit when it all falls on one person.

Agree with this. My DH me I share things more like 60/40 in terms of household and child thing but when you add the mental load of thinking about everything for everyone it's more like 70/30! He really does not think about any things like school admin, hobbies, dental and medical things or holidays. 100% of this falls on me or it would not happen. We simply would not go away, kids would not partake in holidays. If left to him they probably would eventually get to the dentist but that's about it!

Too many typos in that 🙄

I really wanted to split parenting 50/50 and give my husband as much time with the baby as I get. We talked about shared parental leave etc but financially it wouldn’t work out well. Enhanced maternity pay and other benefits are only available for mothers, if my husband wanted to take shared prental leave for some weeks, he’d only get bare legal minimum. Also, since he changed his job soon before getting pregnant, he wouldn’t even qualify for it.
Shame that the terms conditions from employers are not equal yet. I mean, they are getting there but it’s still not equal enough. It would be different if he was unemployed in the first place.

If your husband won’t do any wifework at all then he needs to do more than half the housework to make up for it.

In most jobs, being a manager and planning everyone else’s work / keeping track of targets / dealing with strategic issues is a job in itself.

In England, women are entitled to up to a year of Maternity Leave, but men only have the right to up to 26 weeks' Additional Paternity Leave (varying from employer to employer). So UK law doesn't seem to reflect empowerment for women, or equality for men. In some countries both men and women can have a full year of full salary each of parental leave - and in those places men frequently embrace house husbandry as the norm.

I thought about this and in the end decided to take the full maternity leave entitlement and the return full-time. Our arrangement meant that I could take longer time off and after our child went to nursery full-time my husband cut down his hours and I am working full-time. It has not affected my career at all and since I’ve been promoted.

@Gilly12345

I agree with others and rethink having children.

Idiotic comment count went up by another one

I think you are right about worrying about 50/50 responsibility but also the judgement that other women give to each other, you only have to look in the comment box within mumsnet.
Only you and your partner can decide. But in my experience the women/mother takes on a good percentage of the load. I find your post interesting because I had my kids young and become a stay at home parent, I had thought that's how you are suppose to do it. But a few events have happened and I have come to believe that, this is not the case. I'm currently at the point where I'm intergrating responsibility with my partner. It's tough, because I've carried the load and physical and emotionally can not do it anymore. I think when you create a family you both have to step up. Not only for your kids but for each other. This idea only dawned on me after having 4 kids and lost my sense of self.

Talk with your partner and be completely open and honest!

Is your partner researching attachment, the benefits of breastfeeding and how to support it, the meaning of being a primary carer, the pros and cons of nurseries Vs nannies? Has he taken the initiative to bear the worry and stress of the uncertainty of your child's temperament (not suited to a busy nursery/clingy/easily startled by noise/thick skinned/gregarious/shy) not to mention possible disabilities etc Is he mulling over the anxiety of - what if you get it wrong? What will the impact be on this tiny human?

If he isn't, you might wonder who will worry about the evenings spent with a colicky, screaming baby who won't settle, who will worry about that awful nappy rash, infant eczema, unexplained pain screams, why is s/he up every 45 mins all night. Who will worry about that cough, that temperature, that weird poo. Who will sit up all night beside a sleeping baby who is coughing, watching their chest to see if they are struggling to breathe?

And I haven't even got to the weaning process, the stairs, etc etc etc

That is what being a primary carer is about. Minute to minute, hour to hour, keeping a tiny human who is totally dependent on you alive and content. You can't just decide that you don't want to do it once you have a child. You can send them to nursery and go to work, Dad can be the primary caregiver. But it is best to be upfront that it is relentless and gruelling especially at first and the emotional and mental burden can't be outsourced. If your partner is taking on some of this thinking and worrying now that's a great sign he will continue to bear his share of this. If he isn't, you might need to have some honest conversations about what you both want and can manage.

@AlexanderArnold

Is your partner researching attachment, the benefits of breastfeeding and how to support it, the meaning of being a primary carer, the pros and cons of nurseries Vs nannies? Has he taken the initiative to bear the worry and stress of the uncertainty of your child's temperament (not suited to a busy nursery/clingy/easily startled by noise/thick skinned/gregarious/shy) not to mention possible disabilities etc Is he mulling over the anxiety of - what if you get it wrong? What will the impact be on this tiny human?

If he isn't, you might wonder who will worry about the evenings spent with a colicky, screaming baby who won't settle, who will worry about that awful nappy rash, infant eczema, unexplained pain screams, why is s/he up every 45 mins all night. Who will worry about that cough, that temperature, that weird poo. Who will sit up all night beside a sleeping baby who is coughing, watching their chest to see if they are struggling to breathe?

And I haven't even got to the weaning process, the stairs, etc etc etc

That is what being a primary carer is about. Minute to minute, hour to hour, keeping a tiny human who is totally dependent on you alive and content. You can't just decide that you don't want to do it once you have a child. You can send them to nursery and go to work, Dad can be the primary caregiver. But it is best to be upfront that it is relentless and gruelling especially at first and the emotional and mental burden can't be outsourced. If your partner is taking on some of this thinking and worrying now that's a great sign he will continue to bear his share of this. If he isn't, you might need to have some honest conversations about what you both want and can manage.

Funnily enough I chose to have children with a man that isn't a total womble and is as capable as I am of making decisions about children's care and education.

He was also just as capable of soothing colic, changing nappies and doing the bath and bedtime routine as I was.

Honestly when will this infantilising of men stop? If you keep telling men they cant possibly do x, y and z don't then be aggrieved that you 'have to do everything'.

Perhaps more if the emphasis should be put on being more choosy about who you decide to start a family with rather than demonising women for wanting to have choices after childbirth.

@SkinnyMirror we solved that one with the synchronised phone calendar, much easier

[quote Franklydear]@SkinnyMirror we solved that one with the synchronised phone calendar, much easier[/quote]
Shared calendars are great - providing it's still not just one person doing all the organising!

We split things 50/50 and always have. I breastfed for a year with both kids but we deliberately always did a mix of that and formula bottles so my husband could feed the babies too.

Men are just as capable as women when it comes to looking after children and the 'mental load' of managing it all in my opinion.

We both work full time but my job is less flexible and involves more travel so my husband often has to deal with the unexpected stuff.

You obviously need to discuss this in advance and both agree the general plan. You will also have to resist the temptation to step in when he doesn't do things in exactly the way you would.

Don't listen to those telling you to rethink having kids. It's perfectly possible to love your children and to bring them up with love and care without being the one who does everything.

@SkinnyMirror true, also they must be read and acted upon

Sorry haven’t read the thread. I would say my dh does at least 50% if not more, and that’s his choice. He has the class wattsap and tells me what’s going on, makes pack lunches, takes dc day for their clubs, puts washing on, does ironing, cooking, does bedtime routines etc. This was never negotiated or talked through, it comes from a good marriage and partnership, and him wanting to spend time with his dc. His family is the most important thing in the world to him (and he doesn’t have any of the mn’hobbies’).

We're another 50/50 family - eldest is 10. Some reflections on the last decade:

• Your partner needs to be enthusiastically willing to take shared parental leave, and it won't work if you both take it at the same time - you both need time of being the unequivocal primary parent with the other one off at work all day.

• You need great communication, both on logistics and the ability to talk about things that aren't working / things that are bothering you. That will always happen, and you both need to be good listeners to each other.

• Have really clear responsibilities for each of you - for DH and I it's as granular as he does haircuts and dentist, I do swimming and holiday clubs, he does football and dance, etc. That's not just the people who take them to those events - we tend to split that based on who's available - it's all the admin, booking, payments, contact with the teachers that takes all the time.

• Put your name second on all the contact forms. You'll still get around 50% of the calls but it will stop it being 100%

• Be willing not to be in charge. There will be times when you get home and your husband will tell you 'we don't do it that way any more'. You need to be ok with that, and it can be harder than you think.

• Equally split the drop offs and pick ups - and it works best if you each do a mix of mornings and afternoons so it's not always one of you dashing out of the office in the afternoon. When kids are sick, etc you should alternate, more or less. There will always be times when one of you has an absolute dealbreaker meeting but one person's meeting can't always be more important than the other person's stuff. Doesn't matter who earns more. Doesn't matter whose boss is more of an arsehole. The load needs to be split.

• Outsource everything you can afford.

This makes it sound really heavy work. It isn't, but you do need to pay attention to it.

We're pretty equal parents. DH probably does a little housework, I probably do a little more life admin stuff like holidays. I refuse to do gifts and birthdays for his family; I'm more of a planner so I have to make sure I make space for him to contribute to shared things like the kids' birthdays so he doesn't get steamrollered and I don't end up resentful that I've done it all.

It's stuff like that - where you can take over without meaning to and then get resentful that you've done it all - that can create real traps, so it's good to watch out for them.

Oh and a shared calendar! The time belongs to whoever booked it in first. If someone has made arrangements with a mate but not put it in the calendar, and someone else's book group or cinema trip or whatever is in there, then hard cheese. The calendar trumps all.

(There will be the odd argument over whether the calendar is syncing properly and whether google is in fact shit and not fit for purpose, at least in my house....)

@CrystalMaisie

That’s what my DH has always been like. It’s made it easier for him to adjust to having to take on even more of it now that I’m not well. That’s an obvious advantage of operating as a team when parenting DC.

I was a lone parent with my first, so when me n DH decided on having another we very much had plans of 50/50 parenting. With my first I was due to start a degree that had to be put back, I had started the degree when I fell pregnant with my second and we agreed I would continue and DH would be primary caregiver. My DS was breastfed and would not take a bottle, wouldn’t sleep, would cry with any other person but me. I ended up being primary caregiver through sons choice. However, we still made it work and don’t degrees we’re completed so I could have the career I originally wanted whilst juggling around young children. DH did/does a lot more of the housework when I’m at work, picks DCs up from school, etc, whereas I’ll do the homework, taking to extra classes after school. Also, no matter what you do/ however you choose to parent, you will inevitably be judged by different people. For example - go back to work early: how could you, did you not want to bong with your child. Don’t go back to work: Lazy 😂 whatever works for your family is best and try not to take any notice of unwanted opinions. With that being said, if you post on a site like this you are bound to get varying opinions.

Both degrees not don’t

I took 9 months ML and DH took 3 months shared parental leave. In terms of hands on care, we are generally 50-50 (eg take turns with nights and lie ins) but I have shouldered the vast majority of the mental load. DS has SEND so there are lots of appointments, therapies and the dreaded EHCP to sort out.

DH has just finished work so he is SAHP now. It is taking a bit of adjustment, and I have had to accept that I can't go to all of DS' appointments (which is quite tough).

People will treat you as 'primary caregiver' because you are mum. You will be the one the nursery / school calls, unless you explain very clearly (probably more than once!) that they should call your DH.

Good luck! People have been very weird on this thread but there are loads of us mums who both love our kids and value our careers!

[quote ttcissoboring]@SimonedeBeauvoirscat thank you for reading.

Yes at the moment we do 50/50 with household things if even say DH probably does a bit more if anything.

When it comes to emotional load however it's definitely me. He never even registers birthdays etc. If we attend a social event he doesn't remember the dates even when it's his side. He never organises holidays etc. So I'm aware the mental load is likely to be me but that's probably for the good because I like things doing a certain way!

In terms of household cook and cleaning though we are down the middle currently [/quote]
Have you spoken to him about your idea of how you want things to be when you parent? Ultimately, fuck everyone else's opinion, but if DH isn't on board wholeheartedly and assumes he'll largely be able to carry on as normal, you're not going to get the experience you want.

Also, don't underestimate the emotional/mental load of having a child on top of the existing stuff you do: it's all well and good if he is 50/50 in childcare and bedtimes and stuff, but if that's the case and you're also thinking about bills that need paying and upcoming birthdays and the children needing new shoes and whether school have been paid for that trip or you need childcare next week when both of you are busy and have you booked their jabs and did she have her full bottle last feed and have you got the health visitor booked in and do you need more nappies etc etc etc etc ad nauseum... You're still doing far, far more.

A lot of people I know who are sick of unequal parenting aren't (or aren't only) sick of being the one who's at home at the weekends while their partner's off golfing or whatever. I've got a friend whose husband doesn't know their kids' shoe sizes, or when they go back to school after the holidays, etc etc. She's the manager of their household - even though he does, on the surface of things, roughly 50% of the physical caring, she is still probably doing 95% of the emotional/mental load. And that's what she is so exhausted and angry at. If your DH already can't do that, you're going to find yourself doing it all for kids too - and you say that's not a problem, but I think you may find it becomes one.

If he’s not pulling his weight on the emotional labour then I wouldn’t expect him to pick up a genuinely fair share once you have kids I’m afraid.

DH and I are 50/50. One DD.
I went back to work at 5 months (used Annual
Leave and maternity - We started trying for DD and as I have PCOS and thought it might take a while to get pregnant so didn't build up enough money to cover a full year off and in fairness I didn't want to).
Couldn't BF after a month (complications) so expressed so DH also fed DD so it was very much 50/50.
We both do same job and have same
Salary. We're on opposite shifts for same organization so it is very much shared. Works well. Neither career sacrificed (for want of better term) and both have a brilliant relationship with DD.

On flip side, lots of Judgement from people: in laws always treated me like my career wasn't as important as DH. Expectation that I should be primary care giver. Also when DH has DD they make the most ridiculous over zealous fuss of how amazing he is to do as much as he does
Mums at baby groups couldn't get their head around me not having a year off work and 'letting' DH look after her so much. It was insane. Even some people at work referred to me As non maternal because DH did 50/50 care (mostly
Make
Colleagues who's wives had a year off and went part time)

Utterly crazy. Our family works well for us. You can have career and be a brilliant mum (blowing my own trumpet but DD is awesome). Do what suits your family.